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  #31  
Old 28th April 2012, 10:49
SAperson SAperson is offline
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Default Re: Just got kicked off Jobseekers allowance for refusing to do the work programme

[QUOTE=choirgirl;1487835][QUOTE=Jerry302199;1486929]

I see a future where those of us in unstable, low-skilled employment have working lives that consist of rotating on and off jobseekers allowance. While on jsa, we will, at best, have to work for free with no holidays and under the huge stress of sanctions, while also looking for work. At worst, our anxiety or other problems will get the better of us and we will be sanctioned, thus ending up destitute or dependent on family for help. When not on jsa, we will find our standard of living ever declining as wages and conditions get lower. There will be no will to do anything about this, since having a paid job will be better than having a workfare job. Also those of us who are single and don't have kids will never be able to afford a place of our own in which to decompress from the stress.


[QUOTE]

I agree with what you said about how they are doing this to undermine workers pay and conditions, but your view of the future is a bit bleak. I really hope people wont stand for it, it seems like already we are making progress by them suspending sanctions.
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  #32  
Old 10th May 2012, 23:11
choirgirl choirgirl is offline
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Default Re: Just got kicked off Jobseekers allowance for refusing to do the work programme

Hang on - have they suspended sanctions? This is news to me.

My view of the future may be a bit bleak because I live in the south east. The plus side, it means I have a job at the moment. The downside is I'm surrounded by Tories. Not only do local people hate the unemployed but many of the better off look down on poor people in general.
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  #33  
Old 11th May 2012, 14:51
Tetsuaiga Tetsuaiga is offline
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Default Re: Just got kicked off Jobseekers allowance for refusing to do the work programme

Quote:
Originally Posted by choirgirl
The downside is I'm surrounded by Tories. Not only do local people hate the unemployed but many of the better off look down on poor people in general.
I'm from the South East and dont look down on poor or unemployed people (i'm pretty poor myself lol). Theres probably more poor people in the South East to be quite honest, theres a lot of council housing estates in just about every town.

I do look down on some poor or unemployed people but thats because some of them have vulgar attitudes and are rude and generally uncivilised. I'm unemployed myself but I still try to be a decent human being.

So I think what you've said is a bit of a silly generalisation probably your fears getting the better of you.
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  #34  
Old 8th June 2012, 12:21
Caribou Caribou is offline
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Default Re: Just got kicked off Jobseekers allowance for refusing to do the work programme

Quote:
Originally Posted by d-s-m
Ok so ive just been informed by someone who knows their stuff about this, and apparently there is two Work Programmes (disguised as one). The first one is optional, and if you refuse that they will put you on the other one which is mandatory.

Also, the woman at the jobcentre said that if i dont do any work in the time i sign off then i will go straight back on to the Work Programme, no matter how long i sign off for. Anyone know if theres any truth in that?
We have received the following email in response to the above post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Email to SAUK
Hello there,

I do not wish to join this forum, but did stumble on this thread:
http://www.social-anxiety-community....t=61896&page=2

I campaign with Boycott Workfare and would like to point out to your member d-s-m that what s/he was told - that should they not work when signed off, they will rejoin the WP when putting in for a new claim - is nonsense. Only if they put in a claim within 26 weeks will they be re-referred to the WP, or, already they have been referred for two years at a JC Work Programme Referral interview.

see also this link:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...20Referral.pdf
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  #35  
Old 8th June 2012, 12:29
d-s-m d-s-m is offline
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Default Re: Just got kicked off Jobseekers allowance for refusing to do the work programme

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poltergeist
We have received the following email in response to the above post:
Ok cheers Poltergeist, ive bookmarked the link for future reference.
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  #36  
Old 8th June 2012, 12:31
Caribou Caribou is offline
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Default Re: Just got kicked off Jobseekers allowance for refusing to do the work programme

No probs
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  #37  
Old 8th June 2012, 12:57
Mr. Nobody Mr. Nobody is offline
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Default Re: Just got kicked off Jobseekers allowance for refusing to do the work programme

Quote:
Originally Posted by choirgirl
I see a future where those of us in unstable, low-skilled employment have working lives that consist of rotating on and off jobseekers allowance. While on jsa, we will, at best, have to work for free with no holidays and under the huge stress of sanctions, while also looking for work. At worst, our anxiety or other problems will get the better of us and we will be sanctioned, thus ending up destitute or dependent on family for help. When not on jsa, we will find our standard of living ever declining as wages and conditions get lower. There will be no will to do anything about this, since having a paid job will be better than having a workfare job. Also those of us who are single and don't have kids will never be able to afford a place of our own in which to decompress from the stress.
do you accept that that's not actually your experience and just a hypothetical scenario you've imagined ?
I hope you aren't suffering from anxiety, or depression through imagining what MAY happen, your imagined, possible scenario seems a bit unlikely to be honest.


Quote:
Originally Posted by choirgirl
As for the op, I don't have advice over what to do. Personally, I would suck it up and do it.
ah,.. so we actually both kind of agree then ?

my own experience was actually very close to the O.P.'s..

in my case I made a conscious decision to sign-off from benefits and go it on my own,.. partly because of the condescending attitide of the DSS staff and partly because I was jumping through hoop after hoop for such a paltry amount, I decided to just go for it and try and get some real money working despite my crippling SA.
I'm not saying it's easy to find work,.. just saying I'd rather die on my own sword than beg for crumbs from the state, I felt it was pretty demeaning.

if you know what kind of work you can do, and what kind of work you can handle with your anxiety and SA then isn't it best to seek that out, rather than have some benefits nazi hand out work to you willy-nilly that may or may not be suitable?

I feel for and sympathise with anyone who is unemployed and in an area where there are few jobs,. but I just got a feeling from the O.P. that they seemed to feel they deserved money and also to refuse work,.. which didn't seem to compute... maybe I'm being simplistic ?
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  #38  
Old 8th June 2012, 17:31
tryinghard tryinghard is offline
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Default Re: Just got kicked off Jobseekers allowance for refusing to do the work programme

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry302199
do you accept that that's not actually your experience and just a hypothetical scenario you've imagined ?
I hope you aren't suffering from anxiety, or depression through imagining what MAY happen, your imagined, possible scenario seems a bit unlikely to be honest.
I think the scenario was a little overplayed but over time our cultural rights have changed. Back in the 70s, for instance, it was not considered your moral duty to work for free with no guarantee of a job for up to a year before you could be paid for work. Instead, most school leavers and graduates went into apprenticeships or paid work. Nowadays, an increasing number of school leavers and graduates are being forced into a position where they have to do unpaid internships and volunteering to get the skills they need for a job. Those skills used to be learned on the job by employers that offered genuine entry level posts ( which are fast disappearing). This has led to a well documented widening of the gap between working class and middle class kids eventually going into professional jobs, as those with parents unable to support them through internships are forced to either do twice as much work as others (I.e. two jobs) or just miss out on the opportunity.

At the end if this, you get things like the work programme which feast on our changed perceptions of working morality. Nowadays, you should be grateful for the experience you're getting, not moaning on about getting paid the minimum wage. Of course, by taking on full time employment for no or very little money,you're also reducing the pool of paid vacancies.

So while I agree with your concept of the moral duty to work when you are able to (I definitely agree that there is a moral duty), I also agree with D s m's actions in this case. If he/she we're turning down a paid job that he or she was able to do and suitable for, it would be a different matter, but working for free to get experience with a private sector company is immoral on the govt's part. If the real reason for workfare was to help unemployed people get experience, the wp would place people in charities and jobs that help the community, not offer slave labour to the same private firms we are relying on to increase the number of paid jobs on offer.

Rant over and absolutely no offence intended to anyone. Just poking my head in the debate
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  #39  
Old 11th June 2012, 02:28
few screws loose few screws loose is offline
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Default Re: Just got kicked off Jobseekers allowance for refusing to do the work programme

Quote:
Originally Posted by choirgirl

I see a future where those of us in unstable, low-skilled employment have working lives that consist of rotating on and off jobseekers allowance. While on jsa, we will, at best, have to work for free with no holidays and under the huge stress of sanctions, while also looking for work. At worst, our anxiety or other problems will get the better of us and we will be sanctioned, thus ending up destitute or dependent on family for help. When not on jsa, we will find our standard of living ever declining as wages and conditions get lower. There will be no will to do anything about this, since having a paid job will be better than having a workfare job. Also those of us who are single and don't have kids will never be able to afford a place of our own in which to decompress from the stress.
That's not the future, it's happening now isn't it. Job security doesn't exist - increasingly people are taken on as just part-time, temps, or on renewable contracts instead of stable full-time work, especially in an ever increasing competitive globalised marketplace. And as a result of the government's harsh measures towards the sick and the disabled, many people are ending up destitute because being unable to comply with Jobseeker requirements they are being thrown off the dole when they really should be on ESA anyway in the first place. People's wages and standard of living are getting lower as we speak - social mobility is the lowest it's ever been in modern times, stable full-time jobs (or any job for that matter) are getting scarcer or being outsourced to India, people are forced to work longer till retirement age (even without the law change they would have had to anyway to pay off higher mortages due to crazy house prices), grocery/transport/energy/etc prices are forever going up but people's wages aren't, the influx of EU migrants and the resulting competition for in particular less well-paid jobs keeps wages down and those jobs less easy to come by, and no-one can afford a place of their own because of unaffordable rents and inflationary house prices especially in the Southeast, etc. And of course as always, those at the bottom of the food chain will suffer the most.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn

I admit that some staff can be a little colder in their approach than others but I guarantee from sitting in on many feedback forums as well as hearing daily canteen chats, the majority of staff are frustrated with having their hands constantly tied when it comes to being given the tools to help those genuinely in need. Many also voice their dislike for the work program and echo the opinions expressed here.

So next time someone pisses you off at the jobcentre, try to remember not everything is black and white.

I'm sure that's the case, that some staff are just doing their jobs and are frustrated by government rules. However, in any organisation as tryinghard said there's good and bad. I wonder if you have ever been a service user? Perhaps if you've experienced it yourself at the other end then you'd know that some job seekers really aren't exaggerating when they say they've had some truly unpleasant experiences dealing with some advisors (not all obviously).
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