Being old and alone

[Moksha]

Does this prospect frighten you? I know it's not a very cheerful topic, but xmas kinda underlines how empty and lonely my life really is. There is a show on atm called 24 hours in A&E, in which a documentary crew film life in an A&E unit. A few weeks ago there was a clip of a 79 year old man whose wife had died. I'm unsure why he was in A&E, but in the clip I saw he was crying and a doc was comforting him. From what I could make out his wife had died and he was completely alone. He spoke about waking up in the night and being overwhelmed with loneliness, fear and pain. There must be millions like him.

When I look at the people in my life I get kind of scared. I have my mother, but she is 67 now and isn't going to be around forever. I also have a younger sister. We are fairly close, but we're different sorts of people. I'd hoped she might have children, then at least, perhaps, I'd grow close to a niece or nephew. But she is 32 and her husband doesn't want children. I don't much like my brother in law, though we get along OK (ish). I have an old schoolfriend, but again he is not someone I could turn to in a moment of distress. And that's it- no cousins, no brothers, no nieces or nephews.

There really is only one reason I can think of for having kids: so there is someone there when I'm old. I know that sounds selfish, but I suspect it is the real motivation of a hell of a lot of parents (though they wouldn't admit it). But I don't want children. I don't want the stress and heartache for a start. The thought of having a daughter terrifies me. When I think of how the guys I grew up around treated women it makes me shudder. I just think I'd go out of my mind with worry. The truth is I'd feel guilty and ashamed if I brought a child into this awful world. People tell me that is a sick, twisted way of looking at 'the miracle of life', and they may be right, but I just can't see it any other way- and I have tried. Life to me is a fundamentally dreadful, awful thing. I'm not talking about my petty, irrelevant little life. I just mean 'Life' itself- life with a capital L. I'm not particularly depressed atm, and in truth I quite enjoy parts of my life, but I just don't believe that the average human life is worth living: the boredom, frustration, disappointment, grief and pain vastly outweighs the pleasure and happiness.

The problem is what do I do when I'm old? People often say "oh, I'd never let myself get into that helpless, dependent state. I'd take an overdose and end it all". But talking about it and doing it are not the same. I know I don't have the courage ever to kill myself, no matter how old and ill I may become. But I have seen enough of human beings to know I never want to depend on the kindness of random strangers either (not that there aren't good people out there). I saw up close the final decade of my grandparents lives. Their final years were so ****ing awful that it brings tears to my eyes- just pain and fear and then dreadful, painful, drawn out deaths. Does any of this make sense? Goddam xmas always puts me in this sort of mood...sorry!!!

[timmytim7]

yes it will be sad to be old and alone, and no one will take an interest in you, no one will help you when you are ill, no one will visit you etc. etc.

once my parents have died I wont have anyone at all. they are the only people who visit me or who I phone.


tim

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Martin74

Why are you so sad? Is something wrong or is it just that everyone else is having a great time at xmas and you're not. A lot of people get depressed at this time of year.

No, I'm not particularly depressed. Maybe I'm thinking along these lines because my birthday is coming up. Once you are over 30 the years seem to fly by at ever-increasing speed. It's terrifying

[richardsurrey]

Yes, I have exactly the same fear Moksha.

Now aged 35, working part-time, very low income, no partner, only a couple of friends, no social life, no confidence. Hard to stay optimistic, often become sad, depressed, lonely etc. I do worry about the future.

[les]

In a way getting older is not such a bad thing when you are on your own, if you plan your retirement not around your SA, life can get a bit better.
There are more social groups and clubs aimed at older people and if you feel that it is still not for you, then supported living accommodation is also available to buy or rent with someone keeping an eye on your welfare.

[PussyRiot]

I feel exactly the same. I only have my husband and a few facebook friends, but no other family or friends and I often imagine what would happen if my husband went before me, and I just can see myself as a very lonely old woman. Every year I tell myself that this is going to be the year that I turn my life around, but the last year just flashed by and I wasted it. It is depressing. I haven't worked for three years after my contract came to an end during a bad phase of depression, and don't think I will get a pension now, so the future is bleak. Sorry I can't say anything helpful or positive. I just feel that way too.

[lone_wolf]

I think a large part of the problem is the insular society in which we now live.If we compare home entertainment with say,40 years ago,we can see a huge difference in our current lifestyles and the days when people would visit pubs or cinemas to socialise.

Country pubs in particular are closing down at an alarming rate.I live in a rural area where I can think of seven pubs off the top of my head that have closed for good.In one way,this may make life easier for us SA sufferers.But long term,we are becoming a separated and lonely society.

[PussyRiot]

I agree lone wolf. I lived in a city and moved to a remote part of Wales in 2004 and it is really difficult.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by lone_wolf

I think a large part of the problem is the insular society in which we now live.If we compare home entertainment with say,40 years ago,we can see a huge difference in our current lifestyles and the days when people would visit pubs or cinemas to socialise.

Country pubs in particular are closing down at an alarming rate.I live in a rural area where I can think of seven pubs off the top of my head that have closed for good.In one way,this may make life easier for us SA sufferers.But long term,we are becoming a separated and lonely society.

Yes, that is definitely true. I had a phase of reading books on futurology (books about the near future), and in one them the author wrote that people will increasingly live lonelier and more isolated lives. Record numbers are now living either alone or as single parents. Also, people today move around much more than they used to, which has led to a breakdown (or up) of the traditional extended family (aunts and cousins just around the corner, that sort of thing). Plus, thanks to mass immigration, people often do not even speak the same first language as their neighbour. And as you wrote, home entertainment has improved a hell of a lot. When I was a kid you rented shitty VHS videos or watched one of 4 channels and that was it- unless you read. Now people have the internet, youtube, DVDs, video games etc etc. Next thing will be virtual reality. Once that reaches fully immersive, matrix-level sophistication the streets will be deserted.

I was so interested in this book that I emailed the author. He replied that in his opinion depression and general mental ill health were going to be major problems in the 21st century. In the south east of England, where I live, there is a weird combination of increasing over-crowding and increasing isolation: more people, more houses, more cars, less room and a faster and more stressful pace of life and yet more isolation and loneliness. In his email to me he wrote "add into that mix the loss of religious consolation and you've got a recipe for mass depression".

Still, I am terrified of ending up in an old people's home. I am so misanthropic and irritable that I'd go mad if I was locked up 24/7 with complete strangers. In a situation like that, where everyone is kind of bummed out, you always get some twat who decides he's going to be the life and soul of the place and cheer everyone up (like David Brent)- you know, the sort of person who thinks they are a loveable, irrepressible 'character'. Yes, I can just see me at 87, sitting the corner of an old people's home stinking of piss sending out waves of hatred towards some dickhead who won't shut up!! lol

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Martin74

Look on the bright side: the bad parts go by quickly as well .

ha...I'd never really thought of it that way. I guess your view of death plays a big part in how you cope with old age. If you have an unshakeable religious faith and are certain that when you die you'll go to some kind of heaven then, aside from a slight fear of physical pain, old age and death must be a lot easier. The same is true of atheists. I can think of atheists whose atheism actually comforts them. Why be afraid? You are just a machine that shuts down. You are not going to know you are dead- you will just be a piece of rotten meat. It will be like returning to before you were born. On the whole I'm an atheist, and I suspect that death is just nothing- that it's like falling asleep forever. But I'm not certain. I'm certain there is no kind, loving God, but I'm not certain that death is the end. If there IS an afterlife I have no doubt it will be unpleasant. This world is beautiful, but full of pain. Why should an afterlife be any different?

My big hope is that I go suddenly in my sleep. My uncle was with his father in law watching a boxing match when the old man died. My uncle went to make them both a cup of tea, came back into the front room and his father in law had just slipped away peacefully in his arm chair. Now if we could be sure that death was the complete end of everything and we all went like that I'd be far more at peace and far less afraid of growing old.

[girlinterrupted]

Yes,this is a huge fear of mine and has been since I was a child when I realised I was the youngest person in the family. Of course back then I assumed I`d have children one day,but that wasn`t to be,and now it`s just me and my mother left. Seems to be a march towards the inevitable and all I can do is try not to think about it too much in the interim. Goodness knows what will become of me when I really am all alone

[Daniel1984]

I'm young and alone, luckily for 99% of the time it doesn't bother me one bit. Im sure a normal person would go insane. However, that 1% of the time it does bother me is very upsetting.

I immerse myself in the online world of chatrooms etc, that helps me.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Tabitha

I have known of many elderly people who had a great time. It is not all gloom and doom for every elderly person. Some are very active and enjoy their life.

I am much younger and I am alone mostly, (which I love being mostly) with no friends or family as I disowned them all and yet there are others my age who enjoy their life, and it is exactly the same with elderly people too. It depends on that persons personality. I have my son but rarely see him as he is busy with his career. We talk lots on the phone. I would hate for him to be my carer, if I become elderly and would refuse.

I really do live an old persons life now, and I am still youngish. Maybe when I am elderly things may improve, but they really could not get any worse. It does not worry me. I will refuse to ever go into hospital, unless it is private healthcare. Even if you are very unwell, if you tell the doctor you refuse to go into hospital, he or she cannot force you to. I hate how ageing affects looks, but I am vain, and will have botox and fillers in a few years.

One of my aunt's, was forever out, at different groups, and was very involved with the Rotary, and when not doing that, she would be on cruises, and travelling to many different countries, meeting other Rotary members. She is now not in the best of health, and is in her mid 80's,but she still carries on, enjoying her life as much as is possible. The last time I saw her, when we were chatting, she told me that she has had a great life. She has always been active and is not the type to hide away at home complaining about her life (like I do)

I remember when my late mum was in hospital once, and a lot of the ladies on the ward, were asleep all the time, (they never had any visitors, when I was there anyway) but they didn't all look unhappy, when they were awake. They are probably very used to being on their own, if their chldren emigrated, and husband had died. A lot of old people, suffer with dementia, so some may not be fully aware of what their sitiuation is anyway. Having children is no guarantee they will look after you.

There were also elderly ladies on that ward who were real characters, and very funny, and did not seem the slightest bit unhappy, who once we got chatting to them, or rather they did with us, turned out to be very interesting people, who were enjoying their life.

Yes, it's not so much getting old that I dread. What I dread is being in a helpless, dependent state. I remember a couple of vile women who worked as 'carers' for the elderly in a home near me. They were the mothers of boys I knew and the thought of being 87 and totally dependent on their care and kindness is terrifying. My neighbour never left anything valuable with her elderly mother because the carers would just steal it. If she went down to see her mother and left, say, a packet of kitkats in the fridge the next day they'd be gone. Now I know there are some lovely people working with elderly who do their best for hardly any money at all. The lady who lives opposite me for example. I also know a lovely fillipino girl who works in an OAPs home. But it's pot luck who you will get. I would much rather struggle along in my own home until I collapsed. I know this sounds weird, but I would prefer to die in my bed and remain undiscovered for days. I quite like that thought. It seems more natural than dying on a ward with tubes sticking out of you and the smell of disinfectant in your nostrils then being immediately wheeled down to the morgue. I have never understood why people describe it as awful when someone's body is undiscovered in a flat for days on end. What is awful is ghe way a corpse is whipped away as soon as possible. No wonder we are all so afraid of death.

Still, my grandmother lived alone until she was about 83. She was still getting on a bus to the local town to do her shopping- then she a heart attack in boots and died a few hours later. She was an unpleasant old woman, but I admired her toughness. It's not growing old, it's those final few years and months of helplessess that I really dread. Brian Sewell (who lives alone and has no kids) said in an interview that he plans to commit suicide the minute he no longer enjoys books and art and is becoming dependent. And I know a farmer who has a shotgun prepared for the day they arrive to take him into residential care. I quite admire that determination never to surrender your dignity or independence. But I just don't know if I'd have the guts to do it.

[-Simon-]

In a perverse kind of way, I'm sort of looking forward to it. I think when I get into my 70s people won't expect me to have much of a social life so I won't stick out as such a weirdo. I plan to move to a remote Welsh village when I retire (or a live-aboard boat, not sure yet) and will be happy to be left to my own devices.

[GhostOnMagneticTape]

It will be nothing new to me, as I've always been alone since a teenager, hiding away in a room behind a computer screen.

So be it, the universe nor this planet is going to stop and mourn for me being a minuscule blip on a tiny rock rotating around a small fiery ball, I find comfort in being insignificant and unnoticed at times.

[timmyb]

Getting old terrifies me. I couldn't handle being young, how am I going to cope with all the shit that rains down with old age. I just hope I'm lucky enough to get hit by a bus one day without even seeing it coming. I also think I might experiment with hard drugs if I develop a terminal illness.
I don't expect loneliness to be a major problem, I've always been alone most of the time anyway.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by timmyb

Getting old terrifies me. I couldn't handle being young, how am I going to cope with all the shit that rains down with old age. I just hope I'm lucky enough to get hit by a bus one day without even seeing it coming. I also think I might experiment with hard drugs if I develop a terminal illness.
I don't expect loneliness to be a major problem, I've always been alone most of the time anyway.

Yes, I know what you mean, but in my experience people cope less well with loneliness as they age. They start to become frightened and to want someone around. When you are young loneliness, though very unpleasant, is easier to cope with because you are strong and fit, you have a future ahead of you and death and sickness seem a long way off.

I was actually talking to a lovely woman from the Phillipines today who works with very old people in a care home. She was saying that most of them go the same way: they develop dementia, stop eating, get thinner and thinner and then die without really knowing what is happening to them. I know two people who work day to day with the dying and both have said to me that they now fear death less (which is kind of reassuring).

I also second the idea of messing around with hard drugs. It would be far better to go out on a heroin high in my own home than in a hospital. I know what Tabitha means about hospitals: it's the whole experience- the lack of privacy, the noise, the strange surroundings, the strange people, that awful ****ing smell of urine, orange squash and disinfectant. On the whole suicide seems a sensible option if you are 87 and house bound and you know it's just a question of time before you wake up on a hospital ward with tubes sticking out of you. But it takes a lot of guts to do it. I don't know of any elderly, unhappy, sick people who've killed themselves. When it really comes down to it most don't seem to have the nerve- and I can totally understand that.

[irish34]

the thought of being old terrifies me. then again so does death, so i hope i do reach old age. bit between a rock and a hard place
i think if i could somehow turn my life around, achieve at least some of the things I dream about, growing old won't hold the fear over me it currently does.

[catster]

I heard a lovely phrase once "Age is a privilege". I remind myself of that whenever i start to worry about getting older. It helps me.

[Johnboythelost]

I'm 61, an age that 40 years ago I would have called old, and live alone. I have lived alone since my divorce in 1985, do not have any contact with my family, and would not now willingly inflict myself on anyone else; I am used to living alone and doing things my way without having to consider anyone else's feelings or needs. I could not imagine, for instance, a life where every time I went out to the shops I had to ask if somebody else wanted anything while I was there. I have no fear of getting older and being alone, as it will just be a continuation of the (admittedly miserable) life I have had for a very long time now.

But I do think there is more of a problem here for anyone who has lived with a partner and then loses that partner late in life as they are eventually almost bound to. They are conditioned to sharing thier lives and the absence of the partner must make things gut-wrenchingly lonely, and if they have moved in retirement to the classic cottage by the seaside or in the country where they will have no friends or relatives near and become inevitably forgotten and isolated.

I'm not sure what point I am trying to make here, but it may be that, if your life has been a lonely and isolated one, then you are particularly well prepared for your lonely and isolated old age, and may find that for once you are coping better than your peers!

[Morgana]

It frightens me a little, but since I've been young and alone, I rather hope everything will be turned on its head when I get old.

[ExSAguy]

just hit 30 and this terrifies me even now!
i need to turn my life around somehow, but unsure how to