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  #151  
Old 23rd October 2018, 15:36
Melangell Melangell is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

There's difficult times with kids

But the joy far out ways the tired times, the odd bits of temper.

I work with autistic kids, I don't have to. It can be really hard work, but anything rewarding is going to be a challenge. It makes me really sad that people would judge kids with special needs so much. I once had a liitle boy with aspergers (who does a Lot of the screaming and the shouting) throw a Lego brick square at my head (I have had worse) because I wanted him to tidy it away... When he came to me in the playground later to hug me and say sorry it was so lovely.... Because I knew he meant it and that he cared he'd hurt me. I cried when I left that job.
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  #152  
Old 23rd October 2018, 15:48
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinny
There's difficult times with kids

But the joy far out ways the tired times, the odd bits of temper.

I work with autistic kids, I don't have to. It can be really hard work, but anything rewarding is going to be a challenge. It makes me really sad that people would judge kids with special needs so much.
But there is a difference between looking after such kids and having one of your own. It isn't that I wouldn't love a special needs child but that I'd love them too much. And I'd be terrified what was going to happen to them after I died. For example, the police often have to deal with something known as "cuckooing," where a pimp or a drugs gang moves in on someone with special needs, pretends to be their friend and then gradually takes over their flat and exploits them.
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  #153  
Old 23rd October 2018, 16:09
Melangell Melangell is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

It was your comment "**** me, some parents have monsters" before going on describe children with adhd, or autism.

I found that upsetting.

Believe me, no parent would ever wish for their own child to be different because it was hard to care for them. You might wish that life wasn't so hard for them, but you love your kids for exactly who they are. Unless you're a c***
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  #154  
Old 23rd October 2018, 16:18
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moksha
Apparently, that's "assault"...sigh, it's the nanny state gone mad.

The problem with kids is that you never know what yer gonna get. Even a sweet, mellow child can be hard work. But **** me some parents have monsters. Imagine a kid with ADHD, who never shuts up, never seems to sleep, and leaves you so exhausted that the idea of kissing, let alone making love, to your partner is laughable. Or a kid with autism! I know one mother whose son literally screamed and fought with her every morning before she could get his school uniform on. Her and her husband had to pin him down Ė every ****ing morning. Or imagine having a daughter with anorexia. Or a teenager who gets into drugs.

I often thought I'd like a daughter. I think I'd have been a good father to daughters. But I would have loved them to insanity. And I would have lived in terror 24/7. When they are toddlers you fear paedophiles, and then, when they are teens, you fear bullies, anorexia, self-harming, online groomers, rape, abusive boyfriends, etc. And then what if she wants to go off travelling when she is 18? Or wants to go away to university? The fear would kill me. I have seen enough of life to know what a ****ing awful, merciless world this is. My gift to my kids is never bringing them into this nightmare in the first place.

I think that you have to be careful about putting expectations on children before they're even born and in particular treating girls and boys differently or expecting that they will behave differently just because of their gender.Why would it be more worrying for a daughter to go travelling or away to university than a son? And boys are just as likely as girls to self harm, develop an eating disorders, get bullied or be sexually abused or exploited. All you can do is try to bring them up with an awareness of what can happen and be there to listen and help them.


A father who wraps his daughter in particular up in cotton wool and doesn't let her live a normal life does far more harm than good. And let's face it if a father is terrified of his daughter becoming sexual (in a normal consentual way) there's something really wrong going on there!
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  #155  
Old 23rd October 2018, 16:25
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

And yeah there's a difference between a kid who's really badly behaved (which they all are sometimes) and a kid with ADHD or autism because they can't help some of their behaviours. I know that parents of autistic kids who might have a loud meltdown in public sometimes get people tutting at them for not controlling their child, when that's not the case at all. I don't think it would be a disaster to have a child with autism or special needs either (if I wanted to have children, which I don't.) I have three cousins with autism and they're great.


I'd be much more worried about having a child that was selfish or cruel or deliberately hurtful.
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  #156  
Old 23rd October 2018, 17:45
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougella
Why would it be more worrying for a daughter to go travelling or away to university than a son? And boys are just as likely as girls to self harm, develop an eating disorders, get bullied or be sexually abused or exploited. All you can do is try to bring them up with an awareness of what can happen and be there to listen and help them.

Let's be honest, there IS a difference. Your 18-year-old son is far less likely to have his drink spiked at a bar in Thailand, or be abducted and raped while hitchhiking in South Africa. And I'm sure that statistically your daughter is far more likely to self-harm or develop an eating disorder. So many women I've met in my life have experienced some kind of sexual abuse. Off the top of my head, I can think of five who were raped! Rape and sexual abuse are massively under-reported. Of those five, only one went to the police. I can also think of two women whose drinks were spiked. One woke up in a park with no memory of what had happened. The other woke up on a train with a strange guy wrapping his arms around her.

Then again, I'd probably be terrified if I had a son as well, but for different reasons. I suspect that paranoia is common in those with social anxiety. I know that people with avoidant personality disorders often suffer from it.
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  #157  
Old 23rd October 2018, 17:57
Melangell Melangell is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Young men are far more likely to be the victims of violent crime than young women.

I imagine a big reason for this is the misconception that women are at greater risk of harm from strangers and therefore more likely to take more care of themselves and have other people take more care of them.
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  #158  
Old 23rd October 2018, 18:05
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

The thought literally does make me anxious. How ****ed up must someone be to get a surge of anxiety worrying about his hypothetical, non-existent daughter!? I once had a girlfriend who'd been raped a few years before we met. She was walking home from the pub one night and two guys stepped out from behind some bushes and grabbed her. I think that kind of haunts me tbh.
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  #159  
Old 23rd October 2018, 18:07
Vienna Vienna is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moksha

The problem with kids is that you never know what yer gonna get. Even a sweet, mellow child can be hard work. But **** me some parents have monsters. Imagine a kid with ADHD, who never shuts up, never seems to sleep, and leaves you so exhausted that the idea of kissing, let alone making love, to your partner is laughable. Or a kid with autism! I know one mother whose son literally screamed and fought with her every morning before she could get his school uniform on. Her and her husband had to pin him down Ė every ****ing morning. Or imagine having a daughter with anorexia. Or a teenager who gets into drugs.
That's EXACTLY it
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  #160  
Old 23rd October 2018, 18:25
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Actually, my post was badly worded and gave the wrong impression. Sorry. I didn't mean that a kid with ADHD or autism is a 'monster'. I was thinking more of obnoxious, badly behaved kids. And I used the word 'monster' is a jokey sense. I don't dislike children at all. Some are beautiful and astonishing. And I would never be cruel or spiteful to a child, certainly not one with special needs. On the contrary, I cannot bear cruelty towards those who cannot defend themselves.

I do think it would be a nightmare to have a child who fought you every time you tried to dress him for school, or who was hyped up 24/7. But then I guess when it's your own you feel differently.
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  #161  
Old 23rd October 2018, 19:04
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moksha
Actually, my post was badly worded and gave the wrong impression. Sorry. I didn't mean that a kid with ADHD or autism is a 'monster'. I was thinking more of obnoxious, badly behaved kids. And I used the word 'monster' is a jokey sense. I don't dislike children at all. Some are beautiful and astonishing. And I would never be cruel or spiteful to a child, certainly not one with special needs. On the contrary, I cannot bear cruelty towards those who cannot defend themselves.

I do think it would be a nightmare to have a child who fought you every time you tried to dress him for school, or who was hyped up 24/7. But then I guess when it's your own you feel differently.

If your child with autism refuses to wear their school uniform it's probably because they have sensory difficulties and it's very uncomfortable for them. So the solution there, rather than pinning them down and forcing the uniform on them, is to talk to the school and find a compromise of something that the child is comfortable wearing. I've noticed that when dealing with children with special needs it's often a matter of finding what works for them, not trying to force them to fit in with the neurotypical world.
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  #162  
Old 23rd October 2018, 19:12
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moksha
Let's be honest, there IS a difference. Your 18-year-old son is far less likely to have his drink spiked at a bar in Thailand, or be abducted and raped while hitchhiking in South Africa. And I'm sure that statistically your daughter is far more likely to self-harm or develop an eating disorder. So many women I've met in my life have experienced some kind of sexual abuse. Off the top of my head, I can think of five who were raped! Rape and sexual abuse are massively under-reported. Of those five, only one went to the police. I can also think of two women whose drinks were spiked. One woke up in a park with no memory of what had happened. The other woke up on a train with a strange guy wrapping his arms around her.

Then again, I'd probably be terrified if I had a son as well, but for different reasons. I suspect that paranoia is common in those with social anxiety. I know that people with avoidant personality disorders often suffer from it.

Yes I agree rape and sexual abuse are a huge problem and still not taken as seriously as they should be. BUT why is being sexually assaulted the worst thing you can think of happening to a daughter of yours? Is it to do with the social stigma? Young men abroad are just as likely to be beaten up or robbed.



I know that worrying and paranoia are things that people with social anxiety might suffer with more. But like I said stopping young women from doing things because of risks doesn't help anything. Actually how parents bring up their sons will probably have much more of an impact on womens experiences in the long term.
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  #163  
Old 23rd October 2018, 19:13
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vienna
That's EXACTLY it

People who have a generally very negative view of children are probably making the right decision by not having any.
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  #164  
Old 23rd October 2018, 19:17
Melangell Melangell is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougella
If your child with autism refuses to wear their school uniform it's probably because they have sensory difficulties and it's very uncomfortable for them. So the solution there, rather than pinning them down and forcing the uniform on them, is to talk to the school and find a compromise of something that the child is comfortable wearing. I've noticed that when dealing with children with special needs it's often a matter of finding what works for them, not trying to force them to fit in with the neurotypical world.
You are absolutely right Dougella, very much of working with children with special needs is finding how to adapt their environment and their routine to make them comfortable. I don't know what you do, but you are far too bright and sensible to do nothing because of SA. The world needs more people like you xx
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  #165  
Old 23rd October 2018, 19:21
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

^ I read a lot, haha. Thanks Jinny, I'm pretty 'different' myself so I understand how some children with certain conditions might feel. My Mum also works with teenagers with special needs so I've learned a lot from her xx
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  #166  
Old 23rd October 2018, 21:59
Mr. Spaceman Mr. Spaceman is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

It's plays on my mind. I have two female cousins, both in their 40s, unmarried and with fairly good careers who have both recently had baby daughters and they're so happy with them. I would love a child of my own but the likelihood of me ever being in a position to be a father is pretty remote. It does make me sad that I'll be the end of the family line, an unbroken line stretching back to the dawn of time, no matter how f*cked up that line is.
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  #167  
Old 23rd October 2018, 23:01
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

^ I don't think about it, but I'm not sure I'm considered normal either! Maybe it's more of a male thing as women are more likely to change their name when they get married at least.
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  #168  
Old 24th October 2018, 00:17
genovese genovese is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Which is better....

Pinning your autistic kid down to put on school uniform
or
Talking and finding a compromise to something more comfortable




(carry on kids...)
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  #169  
Old 24th October 2018, 09:15
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

I do think you have to be very careful about how you word things. There are posters here who are on the autistic spectrum or have ADHD and also people who have children with those conditions. To even slightly suggest that those kids are 'monsters' is extremely hurtful and unfair.
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  #170  
Old 24th October 2018, 09:31
Marco Marco is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Having children isnít for everyone, me included, but the experience of bringing up a child into adulthood can be a truly wonderful one, despite the huge travails that often come with it. I accept this and I realise I may have missed out on this to my cost, but what I donít like is the feeling of being almost stigmatised (maybe thatís too strong a word) or perceived as being somehow less of a person by others for not having children.
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  #171  
Old 24th October 2018, 10:44
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Posts can be badly phrased and misleading. And the word "monster" can be meant in all sorts of ways. Parents affectionately refer to their kids as "little monsters".
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  #172  
Old 24th October 2018, 11:30
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

^ Your post did seem to suggest (which may not have been your intention) that children with certain special needs can behave like 'monsters' and that was the word you used.
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  #173  
Old 24th October 2018, 11:33
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moksha
Apparently, that's "assault"...sigh, it's the nanny state gone mad.

The problem with kids is that you never know what yer gonna get. Even a sweet, mellow child can be hard work. But **** me some parents have monsters. Imagine a kid with ADHD, who never shuts up, never seems to sleep, and leaves you so exhausted that the idea of kissing, let alone making love, to your partner is laughable. Or a kid with autism! I know one mother whose son literally screamed and fought with her every morning before she could get his school uniform on. Her and her husband had to pin him down Ė every ****ing morning. Or imagine having a daughter with anorexia. Or a teenager who gets into drugs.

I often thought I'd like a daughter. I think I'd have been a good father to daughters. But I would have loved them to insanity. And I would have lived in terror 24/7. When they are toddlers you fear paedophiles, and then, when they are teens, you fear bullies, anorexia, self-harming, online groomers, rape, abusive boyfriends, etc. And then what if she wants to go off travelling when she is 18? Or wants to go away to university? The fear would kill me. I have seen enough of life to know what a ****ing awful, merciless world this is. My gift to my kids is never bringing them into this nightmare in the first place.

The two examples you used after you said 'some parents have monsters' were a kid with ADHD and a kid with autism.
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  #174  
Old 24th October 2018, 16:27
Vienna Vienna is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougella
I do think you have to be very careful about how you word things. There are posters here who are on the autistic spectrum or have ADHD and also people who have children with those conditions. To even slightly suggest that those kids are 'monsters' is extremely hurtful and unfair.
Why don't i say my anti child opinions out loud, well because its frowned upon in todays child worshiping society and I don't really chat to anyone that much.
I'm sick of it really.
I know there are some really friendly intelligent autistic people out there .
I have a cousin who is on the deep end of autistic , last time i saw him we were kids, and he scared the living daylights out of me. He would jump all over the furniture and grab you and pull your hair, he was wild.
Just stating the facts. I felt extremely uncomfortable around him.
I know he can't help it but thats how i felt.
I know they're not all like that.

Moksha is right, many parents refer to their kids as little monsters, whether they have issues or not.

Sorry if i've offended anyone.
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  #175  
Old 24th October 2018, 16:52
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

^ I don't think it's necessarily frowned upon but it obviously depends who you're talking to. If you say to anyone that has kids that you hate kids it's probably not going to go down well! But saying that you don't want to have children or even that you're scared of them is likely to be a bit more understood.


Yes, the same as with any other condition Autistic people are all different. It's fine to say you felt uncomfortable around your cousin if he was behaving like that and you didn't understand it! But like you say not all autistic people are like that so it wouldn't be fair to generalise.


The general rule seems to be it's fine for parents to call their own children names but not for anyone else which is kind of understandable, I reserve the right to complain about my family but I won't stand for anyone else saying anything mean about them.
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  #176  
Old 24th October 2018, 17:39
Vienna Vienna is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougella
^ I don't think it's necessarily frowned upon but it obviously depends who you're talking to. If you say to anyone that has kids that you hate kids it's probably not going to go down well! But saying that you don't want to have children or even that you're scared of them is likely to be a bit more understood.


Yes, the same as with any other condition Autistic people are all different. It's fine to say you felt uncomfortable around your cousin if he was behaving like that and you didn't understand it! But like you say not all autistic people are like that so it wouldn't be fair to generalise.


The general rule seems to be it's fine for parents to call their own children names but not for anyone else which is kind of understandable, I reserve the right to complain about my family but I won't stand for anyone else saying anything mean about them.
I don't understand the last paragraph.
If I complained about a family member and someone else did too , I wouldn't see anything wrong with it.
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  #177  
Old 24th October 2018, 17:51
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Does not having children (in your 30s plus) bother you?

^ I mean if someone else said something about a member of my family.
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