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  #31  
Old 16th October 2018, 14:57
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco
^^Lol. I totally agree with Copernicium. Thatís not really a good argument, Dougella. At least these drugs you mention have undergone clinical evaluation and are only available as licensed medicines that are given under medical supervision. Clinicians have a far better understanding of their pharmacology, side effects, drug interactions, what to monitor and so on. Of course all drugs are potentially harmful, even lethal - we all know that. Drinking too much water can be fatal. The truth is though, far less is known about mind altering psychedelic drugs than licensed medicines. Their putative beneficial effects in conditions like PTSD are still to be demonstrated in clinical studies and properly controlled randomised clinical trials. For now, itís simply playing with fire to dabble in these substances! Far better to take up exercise and experience the natural highs produced by the bodyís own opioids.
Obviously psychodelics drugs would need to be trialled and evaluated before being prescribed. I'm not advocating a free for all, I'm saying possible benefits are worth being investigated.
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  #32  
Old 16th October 2018, 15:34
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Copernicium
Listen to this from Moksha:



He thinks that sounds brilliant. I don't. He doesn't even know what dissolving the ego means, but he thinks it sounds cool. This is as annoying to me as his determination that mescaline or whatever is beneficial. He thinks the whole thing is exciting and groovy and will open up new parts of his mind and blah blah blah.

Well, part of me thinks, go ahead then, but don't come crying back here when you don't get what you expected.
wow, what an incredibly rude and aggressive way to address someone, especially on a mental health forum!! I know exactly what I mean by "dissolving the ego". I studied psychoanalysis at MA level and sat in numerous seminars with professors of Freudian and Jungian psychology. I also wrote my masters dissertation on R.D. Laing, a psychiatrist who prescribed LSD to his patients. I have never in my life given a flying ***k about being 'cool', and even less about being 'groovy'.

The ego, or 'I,' is our sense of being a separate, individual self 'in here', peering out at the world. Freud set it against the 'Id,' or primal drives, and the 'superego,' or conscience. The conflict between these, in his opinion, explained neurosis. The egoic-self depends in part on the stories we tell ("the self is a narrative," as someone once said). In other words, if you ask Steve who he is, he will tell you where he was born, where he went to school, who bullied him, what he does for a living, who he married, and so on. Our sense of ego/self depends on 'My Story'. For some, like the self-made millionaire born in a council flat, this story is a source of pride. It boosts up, or "inflates," his ego. For others, like me and many on this forum, 'My Story' creates shame and suffering.

Psychedelic plants, like Ayahuasca and Mescaline, seem to work on the part of the brain that creates that sense of self, temporarily freeing you from the old ruts or patterns of thought. That would also explain the altered experience of time. In normal, day to day consciousness, we feel trapped in time. And the ego depends on this. I am what I am because of what I did yesterday and what I plan to do tomorrow. During a psychedelic session people lose the sense of linear time. Instead, they find themselves in what the mystics call an 'eternal now'.

As the drug wears off, you realize that the ego is nothing but a story you tell yourself. For someone crippled with regret and shame, that can come as a tremendous liberation. Many people have experienced these benefits for themselves, and many therapists would like to use such plants in a clinical setting. Dr Cahart-Harris, for example, has used psylocibin to treat people with severe depression. He was very impressed with the results and is a firm believer in the benefits of such drugs. Personally, I dislike the idea of LSD as it was made in a laboratory. I would stick to things that grow naturally.
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  #33  
Old 17th October 2018, 23:01
Fungus Fungus is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Certainly towards my mid forties things started to go downhill rapidly. I think I stayed alive partly to look after my dying mother but when she went it was hard to find a reason to live again. Rather than a new beginning there was absolutely nothing left. Its hard to find any motivation at all past a certain age if you have almost nothing and see no future. In fact I have read countless times that long term unemployed people past 40 have much greater difficulty finding work and are much more likely to kill themselves, especially men, especially lone men.

This is why so many of the self help books and advice has absolutely no effect whatsoever. I started to seriously look for help online a few years ago and found that it actually made me feel more hopeless. Its as if its all written for people under 30 and does not take age in consideration at all. The idea that someone my age will get better by running round the streets and making small talk to strangers is utter balls. I would rather die than put myself through more humiliation in the vague hope of some miracle. I dont consider myself to have a fear of people, its a fear of humiliation so most exposure therapy would make me worse. Whatever you say or think you are always then blamed for being negative or even cowardly as if its a choice. So you stay quiet and and dont speak about it even though the people on TV who talk about depression keep telling us to as if just talking about our problems is a cure. Most people dont really want to know as we depress them. Despite depression being common with long term anxiety almost all advice ignores this and demands you are full of enthusiasm and motivation from the off. If its caused my social anxiety and a lifetime of loneliness in the first place then its almost impossible to cure and for many people there is absolutely no help whatsoever.
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  #34  
Old 18th October 2018, 09:42
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

^ By the way Moksha I think you should be incredibly proud of the things you've achieved even with the mental health problems you've had. A degree and a Masters, that's really great!
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  #35  
Old 18th October 2018, 09:45
Copernicium Copernicium is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moksha
wow, what an incredibly rude and aggressive way to address someone, especially on a mental health forum!! I know exactly what I mean by "dissolving the ego". I studied psychoanalysis at MA level and sat in numerous seminars with professors of Freudian and Jungian psychology. I also wrote my masters dissertation on R.D. Laing, a psychiatrist who prescribed LSD to his patients. I have never in my life given a flying ***k about being 'cool', and even less about being 'groovy'.

The ego, or 'I,' is our sense of being a separate, individual self 'in here', peering out at the world. Freud set it against the 'Id,' or primal drives, and the 'superego,' or conscience. The conflict between these, in his opinion, explained neurosis. The egoic-self depends in part on the stories we tell ("the self is a narrative," as someone once said). In other words, if you ask Steve who he is, he will tell you where he was born, where he went to school, who bullied him, what he does for a living, who he married, and so on. Our sense of ego/self depends on 'My Story'. For some, like the self-made millionaire born in a council flat, this story is a source of pride. It boosts up, or "inflates," his ego. For others, like me and many on this forum, 'My Story' creates shame and suffering.

Psychedelic plants, like Ayahuasca and Mescaline, seem to work on the part of the brain that creates that sense of self, temporarily freeing you from the old ruts or patterns of thought. That would also explain the altered experience of time. In normal, day to day consciousness, we feel trapped in time. And the ego depends on this. I am what I am because of what I did yesterday and what I plan to do tomorrow. During a psychedelic session people lose the sense of linear time. Instead, they find themselves in what the mystics call an 'eternal now'.

As the drug wears off, you realize that the ego is nothing but a story you tell yourself. For someone crippled with regret and shame, that can come as a tremendous liberation. Many people have experienced these benefits for themselves, and many therapists would like to use such plants in a clinical setting. Dr Cahart-Harris, for example, has used psylocibin to treat people with severe depression. He was very impressed with the results and is a firm believer in the benefits of such drugs. Personally, I dislike the idea of LSD as it was made in a laboratory. I would stick to things that grow naturally.
You see? You haven't the faintest idea what it feels like for your ego to unravel in front of you. And this is what you care about? Groan.

You haven't listened to a single word.

Look, you are consumed with shame. Have you any idea what a bad trip could do to that? Have you?
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  #36  
Old 18th October 2018, 15:39
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Copernicium
And this is what you care about? Groan.

You haven't listened to a single word.
Un believable arrogance. "Not listened to a single word"!!! Who do you think you are? I've studied this stuff at MA level my friend. There was even a girl on my course with bipolar disorder who was planning to go on and do a PhD. She once told me that nothing had ever helped her as much as LSD, not therapy, not medication, nothing. I'll "listen" to her instead. I'm not interested in debating the nature of the self or the effects of psychedelics with you. What does bother me, however, is your aggressive tone. To come on a mental health forum and behave like that is incredibly irresponsible. For all you know I could be suicidal.

I do NOT advocate the indiscriminate use of such drugs. But I DO believe that therapists should be free to use them. Personally, I would never touch something made in a laboratory, and I would discourage anyone else from doing so. But plants, if used in small doses, and under the guidance of a trained professional, could do wonders for people caught in destructive thought patterns. I just happen to be reading a book by the comedian Simon Amstell atm. All his life he suffered from depression and anxiety. In desperation, he flew to South America to take part in Ayahuasca therapy. Like so many others, he found the whole thing profoundly liberating. Even Cary Grant once said that nothing ever helped him like LSD. Hopefully, we are moving to a situation where therapists are allowed to administer these drugs. When they are, I'll be at the front of the queue...now "groan" away.
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  #37  
Old 18th October 2018, 15:50
slrrrrp slrrrrp is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Might there be a kind of survivorship bias thing going on with LSD and the like? i.e. we tend to hear from all the people who had a positive experience, especially if they're famous, when actually they're in the minority, maybe. I dunno, just a thought.

-----------------------
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  #38  
Old 18th October 2018, 16:21
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinny

It's not irresponsible to disagree strongly with your promoting of hallucinagenucs as a cure for mental illness, but I think it's extremely irresponsible to suggest that they might be useful on a mental health forum where young, desperate people might read it and think it's worth a try.
Your point is fair. I certainly would not advise people on this forum to visit their local dealer and down a load of mushrooms. If your mental health is fragile, or your sense of self is weak, they can cause harm. Personally, I would only take them under the guidance of a professional. From what I've read, the environment/context is key. If you are lonely and desperate, or you take them in a room with people you barely know, you may indeed have a nightmarish experience. And even those who have benefitted from them (which many people do, that is just a fact) will admit that the experience can be scary and painful as well as liberating.

If used carefully, these drugs can free people from old, destructive identities and thought patterns. Dorian Yates, a guest on Joe Rogan's podcast, said it was "like 10 years of therapy in one weekend". To be more precise, they help people to see their identity/ thought patterns in a new way Ė as just one among many. I'm sorry you had a bad experience. And you are right to flag it up. But it sounds like you were young and vulnerable, that your sense of self was fragile, and that you took them in a negative setting. Plus, as you say, you were taking other drugs at that time in your life Ė and drinking. I don't underestimate their power. I know the experience can be horrible Ė but so can lots of things if they are used in the wrong way.
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  #39  
Old 18th October 2018, 16:43
Copernicium Copernicium is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moksha
Un believable arrogance. "Not listened to a single word"!!! Who do you think you are? I've studied this stuff at MA level my friend. There was even a girl on my course with bipolar disorder who was planning to go on and do a PhD. She once told me that nothing had ever helped her as much as LSD, not therapy, not medication, nothing. I'll "listen" to her instead. I'm not interested in debating the nature of the self or the effects of psychedelics with you. What does bother me, however, is your aggressive tone. To come on a mental health forum and behave like that is incredibly irresponsible. For all you know I could be suicidal.
Or...you could be enthusuastic about taking psychedelics when you have mental health issues. You clearly haven't grasped what the dangers are...AT ALL. I'm not just randomly getting annoyed at you for no reason. I'm trying to prevent you wasting your time on something that could do you a lot of harm.

But will you listen? No. Of course not. Because you know better. It hasn't occurred to you I suppose that I might know what I'm talking about.

Quote:
I do NOT advocate the indiscriminate use of such drugs. But I DO believe that therapists should be free to use them. Personally, I would never touch something made in a laboratory, and I would discourage anyone else from doing so. But plants, if used in small doses, and under the guidance of a trained professional, could do wonders for people caught in destructive thought patterns. I just happen to be reading a book by the comedian Simon Amstell atm. All his life he suffered from depression and anxiety. In desperation, he flew to South America to take part in Ayahuasca therapy. Like so many others, he found the whole thing profoundly liberating. Even Cary Grant once said that nothing ever helped him like LSD. Hopefully, we are moving to a situation where therapists are allowed to administer these drugs. When they are, I'll be at the front of the queue...now "groan" away.
Lol, oh well, Simon Amstell says so...
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  #40  
Old 18th October 2018, 16:44
Copernicium Copernicium is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moksha
I know the experience can be horrible Ė but so can lots of things if they are used in the wrong way.
Do you? Do you really know the experience can be horrible? Do tell us about it.
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  #41  
Old 18th October 2018, 17:04
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

^ Do you have any personal experience of psychodelics Copernicium?
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  #42  
Old 18th October 2018, 17:29
Beth M Beth M is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

I'm aware I'm not saying anything new here, but the very big problem with LSD is it's just way too much of a Russian Roulette. I know of one person who did find it somewhat beneficial in freeing themselves of old patterns, and another person who's whole reason for being on SAUK in the first place was the result of trying LSD just once. And that was without having any pre-existing mental health problems!


Quote:
Originally Posted by dougella
By the way Moksha I think you should be incredibly proud of the things you've achieved even with the mental health problems you've had. A degree and a Masters, that's really great!
I second this motion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinny
Take it from someone who's done it, it doesn't work, it can do terrible harm.
I'm sincerely sorry to hear that, Jinny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Copernicium
But will you listen? No. Of course not.
Even if there's some truth to what you're saying, this is a support place first and foremost. All Moksha is doing is talking about something that bothers and interests them. I think it's an interesting discussion.
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  #43  
Old 18th October 2018, 21:10
Copernicium Copernicium is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougella
^ Do you have any personal experience of psychodelics Copernicium?
I suppose I'll have to answer that now though I was hoping to sidestep it.

Yes, about 30 years ago I took psychedelics a few times with mixed results. It's a long time ago, so my memories of it are a bit patchy.

I used to hang around the local music scene and soft drugs were a major part of the scene, both in the audience and in the bands. Acid was talked about a a lot and was almost regarded as a rite of passage. People would talk about it as if it was special. At the time I was impressed and curiosity got the better of me, so I tried it. About 5 or 6 times I think.

What were my conclusions from the experience? I think that although the environment in which the drugs are taken and who you are with will help, it is equally as much about what sort of person you are and what issues you have going on in your own head that will determine what sort of experience you have. That is my conclusion. That is why I am so set against people with any sort of mental health issues trying it. It is a lottery. Even stable people have bad experiences. It is not worth the risk.

Did I have some good experiences? Yes. The good experiences were to do with feelings of love as far as I remember, which was nice, but there were bad ones too, and the bad ones were really unpleasant and scary, which is why I stopped. I stopped because I didn't want to experience the feeling of everything familiar and comforting in my mind being torn loose again, which is basically what happens, along with some mild or wild hallucinations, depending on how much you took. Mostly the hallucinations happen around the edge of what you are looking at, but if you have a big dose then things can get crazier. But the major thing for me was the feeling of not being at home in my own mind. I didn't like that.

Thinking back I remember another aspect that isn't mentioned often. When you first feel the drug coming on, your heart beat increases significantly in the same way as when adrenaline pumps around your body. And that happens at about the same time as you start to notice colours flashing around the edge of your vision. If you are given to anxiety that might be enough to put you off. Also, it takes several hours to peak. And until you are past the peak you have no idea how much more intense it is going to get.

It's worth noting that most people who try it only take it once or twice and won't be persuaded to try it again. Why? Because although they might relate their experience in a positive way, in the same way someone might relate their crazy experience of a camping weekend in a blizzard as a positive experience for instance, they have no intention of repeating it.

And as Jinny said, it's the lasting after effects that can be the real nuisance. This is why I call it a time waster. You waste time dealing with whatever the drug throws up at you for a long time afterwards. In my case I'm pretty convinced it made my anxiety issues more ... prominent, let's say. I might have skirted round some of them without it.

But even the fun stuff is a time waster. I have listened to so many people talk rubbish because they have had some experience on psychedelics that they think has given them a special insight into something or other. More garbage has been spouted by old hippy types who took lots of psychedelics than any other group on the planet in my opinion. The only thing psychedelics give me an insight into is how much I like the familiar furniture of my own mind. I suppose you could argue that I wouldn't have been aware of the furniture otherwise, but even that's debatable.

Anyway, that's a bit of a ramble - I'm tired and it's been a long day - but it might explain why I think psychedelics and mental health issues are a really bad mix.
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  #44  
Old 18th October 2018, 21:10
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fungus
Certainly towards my mid forties things started to go downhill rapidly. I think I stayed alive partly to look after my dying mother but when she went it was hard to find a reason to live again. Rather than a new beginning there was absolutely nothing left. Its hard to find any motivation at all past a certain age if you have almost nothing and see no future. In fact I have read countless times that long term unemployed people past 40 have much greater difficulty finding work and are much more likely to kill themselves, especially men, especially lone men.

This is why so many of the self help books and advice has absolutely no effect whatsoever. I started to seriously look for help online a few years ago and found that it actually made me feel more hopeless. Its as if its all written for people under 30 and does not take age in consideration at all. The idea that someone my age will get better by running round the streets and making small talk to strangers is utter balls. I would rather die than put myself through more humiliation in the vague hope of some miracle. .
God, yes, I can really relate to this. Single, childless men in their early 40s are more likely to kill themselves than any other group, and I'm beginning to see why. When you are young, you survive on hope. No matter how shit things become, you convince yourself that it will all work out OK in the end. That may be an illusion, but at least it keeps you going.

Life becomes harder in so many ways. For a start, people see your mental illness differently. When I was in my early 20s, I used to go for moody walks in the park and feel like I was "just a messed up kid". There is something kind of sweet about being young and lost. At 40 it 'ain't sweet but pathetic.

Relationships also become harder. For a start, most people are 'taken'. And anyone you become involved with, male or female, brings with them a hell of a lot of baggage. The innocent, fresh, young love, where you are excited about a new life together, and so on...gone forever. Friendship is also harder. Most people my age are preoccupied with their kids. In fact, most seem to live for and through their kids.

And you lose any sense of achievement. In my teens and twenties I would have given anything to get a decent job and move out of the family home, away from the assholes in this street. It would have felt like such an achievement. To be young and free of shame would have been wonderful. Now, in my 40s, nothing I do seems to matter any more. For example, a few years ago a friend and I talked about getting a tattoo. Once I turned 40 I totally lost interest. What's the point? I'd just feel like a dick. I also went to boxing in my late 30s. It gave me such a sense of pride. But, once again, I can't see the point now. Nothing I do seems to matter any more. Over 40 you become invisible. For women I suspect that feeling is even worse.

I know just what you mean about self-help books as well. I went to therapy when I had just turned 40 and really noticed a difference in her attitude. When I first went, at 28, the therapist seemed genuinely concerned by my predicament, as if to say "hmm, there is still hope for you." With the last therapist, I almost felt like she was thinking "why are you bothering?" Someone once said that the essence of a midlife crisis is the realization "I'm not 'going' anywhere any more."

This is why I'm so curious about life extension. If regenerative medicine really does live up to the hype, and the average lifespan leaps to 130, or even 150, over the next ten or twenty years, would that change the way we feel?
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  #45  
Old 18th October 2018, 23:40
Beth M Beth M is offline
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I don't know, I always thought 40s was prime of life for a man. Even when I was 20, I fancied men that were 45.

Wasn't Magnum P.I. considered a total sexpot and he was in his mid 40s when that show aired.

I agree it's harder for women. Grey hair on men looks distinguished, on me it just makes me look knackered, dreary or unkempt.

My point is, there's always hope. Unless you're dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moksha
If regenerative medicine really does live up to the hype, and the average lifespan leaps to 130, or even 150, over the next ten or twenty years, would that change the way we feel?
Almost certainly.
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  #46  
Old 18th October 2018, 23:49
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth M
I don't know, I always thought 40s was prime of life for a man. Even when I was 20, I fancied men that were 45.

Wasn't Magnum P.I. considered a total sexpot and he was in his mid 40s when that show aired.

.
I love you Beth That is my all time favorite SAUK post...tell me more about why we're so hot!!
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  #47  
Old 19th October 2018, 00:02
Beth M Beth M is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Magnum P.I.

It's true! Please - just trust me.

I think we should play the Magnum theme tune whenever we're feeling old and past it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBIgXhiOpeQ
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  #48  
Old 19th October 2018, 11:27
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Copernicium
I suppose I'll have to answer that now though I was hoping to sidestep it.

Yes, about 30 years ago I took psychedelics a few times with mixed results. It's a long time ago, so my memories of it are a bit patchy.

I used to hang around the local music scene and soft drugs were a major part of the scene, both in the audience and in the bands. Acid was talked about a a lot and was almost regarded as a rite of passage. People would talk about it as if it was special. At the time I was impressed and curiosity got the better of me, so I tried it. About 5 or 6 times I think.

What were my conclusions from the experience? I think that although the environment in which the drugs are taken and who you are with will help, it is equally as much about what sort of person you are and what issues you have going on in your own head that will determine what sort of experience you have. That is my conclusion. That is why I am so set against people with any sort of mental health issues trying it. It is a lottery. Even stable people have bad experiences. It is not worth the risk.

Did I have some good experiences? Yes. The good experiences were to do with feelings of love as far as I remember, which was nice, but there were bad ones too, and the bad ones were really unpleasant and scary, which is why I stopped. I stopped because I didn't want to experience the feeling of everything familiar and comforting in my mind being torn loose again, which is basically what happens, along with some mild or wild hallucinations, depending on how much you took. Mostly the hallucinations happen around the edge of what you are looking at, but if you have a big dose then things can get crazier. But the major thing for me was the feeling of not being at home in my own mind. I didn't like that.

Thinking back I remember another aspect that isn't mentioned often. When you first feel the drug coming on, your heart beat increases significantly in the same way as when adrenaline pumps around your body. And that happens at about the same time as you start to notice colours flashing around the edge of your vision. If you are given to anxiety that might be enough to put you off. Also, it takes several hours to peak. And until you are past the peak you have no idea how much more intense it is going to get.

It's worth noting that most people who try it only take it once or twice and won't be persuaded to try it again. Why? Because although they might relate their experience in a positive way, in the same way someone might relate their crazy experience of a camping weekend in a blizzard as a positive experience for instance, they have no intention of repeating it.

And as Jinny said, it's the lasting after effects that can be the real nuisance. This is why I call it a time waster. You waste time dealing with whatever the drug throws up at you for a long time afterwards. In my case I'm pretty convinced it made my anxiety issues more ... prominent, let's say. I might have skirted round some of them without it.

But even the fun stuff is a time waster. I have listened to so many people talk rubbish because they have had some experience on psychedelics that they think has given them a special insight into something or other. More garbage has been spouted by old hippy types who took lots of psychedelics than any other group on the planet in my opinion. The only thing psychedelics give me an insight into is how much I like the familiar furniture of my own mind. I suppose you could argue that I wouldn't have been aware of the furniture otherwise, but even that's debatable.

Anyway, that's a bit of a ramble - I'm tired and it's been a long day - but it might explain why I think psychedelics and mental health issues are a really bad mix.

Thanks for answering my question, that's a very interesting response! I'm always interested when people are strongly against something whether they have experience of that thing themselves and if that's what affected their viewpoint. I do agree that people need to be cautious about any type of drug, let alone psychodelics. The reason I've not tried anything like that myself is because I've had mental health problems from a young age and I knew it could go very badly. Not to mention the fact that these things being illegal means you can never be sure what you're getting.



I'm still open to the possibility that those types of drugs could be used therapeutically to help people but only under medical supervision and there needs to be a lot more studies done. I wouldn't advocate anyone going off and trying those drugs by themselves at all.
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  #49  
Old 19th October 2018, 11:36
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

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Originally Posted by Beth M
I don't know, I always thought 40s was prime of life for a man. Even when I was 20, I fancied men that were 45.

Wasn't Magnum P.I. considered a total sexpot and he was in his mid 40s when that show aired.

I agree it's harder for women. Grey hair on men looks distinguished, on me it just makes me look knackered, dreary or unkempt.

My point is, there's always hope. Unless you're dead.



Almost certainly.
I think that's true, a lot of men seem to really come in to their own after the age of 40. A lot of women find older men attractive too so I don't think the chances of having a relationship are particularly reduced and you don't have the same worries as women about declining fertility (if that's a concern of course). Get out there I say
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  #50  
Old 19th October 2018, 14:07
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

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Originally Posted by Beth M
Magnum P.I.

It's true! Please - just trust me.
Right, first I'm growing a moustache, then I'm ordering a Hawaian shirt Just need to work on my tan and get rid of my nasally Essex accent. You are better than my therapist Beth.
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  #51  
Old 19th October 2018, 14:41
Beth M Beth M is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

^ Who knew it was so easy . Anyway, friends are miles better than therapists.

PS - thanks, you made my day.
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  #52  
Old 15th January 2019, 11:10
smoted smoted is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

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Originally Posted by Copernicium
Sorry, I disagree. Hallucinogenic drugs are the last thing people with mental health problems need. If you want to talk to some seriously messed up people go and talk to some acid casualties. That'll give you something to feel depressed about. At best hallucinogenic drugs give people a lot of boring, time-wasting ideas that they wrongly think are profound because they spent 8 hours staring at the sky imagining they were communing with the universe, which is tedious beyond words for everyone who subsequently has to listen to their nonsense, but more likely someone with mental health problems will be so freaked out that they need professional help. I can't think of anything less sensible for someone with mental health problems to do than take hallucinogenic drugs.

And you are wasting your time considering this rubbish when you have more pressing things to think about. I feel like throwing my hands up in despair and sighing.
No sorry but this is wrong. LSD had great success in clinical settings treating alcoholism, before it was banned. I used LSD some years ago, and it made me see everything from a new perspective. All of the ruts in which I'd found myself inescapably embedded, suddenly seemed trivial, I could see what I needed to do to conquer a lot of my problems. That one experience lingered when i sobered up and I made real progress in tackling alcoholism. I imagine that in a clinical setting with a psychologist, it'd have had a better chance of beating my alcoholism than any other form of treatment i've tried. I also hear that psilocybin (magic mushrooms) yields around an 80% success rate when treating people addicted to nicotine.
The 'all drugs are bad, mkay?' mentality is ignorant, outdated and damaging to society.
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  #53  
Old 15th January 2019, 15:15
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

^ I don't think that using certain drugs to help people overcome addiction is a bad thing. It already happens because it can be very physically dangerous, with alcohol or heroin for instance people are given sedatives or other drugs to help get through the first detox period (that's as I understand it, I'm not an expert obviously!)


LSD is worrying but if there is a chance that people can really be helped through positive experiences with it then I do think that should be researched more.
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  #54  
Old 15th January 2019, 16:58
Jimmy77 Jimmy77 is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

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Originally Posted by smoted
No sorry but this is wrong. LSD had great success in clinical settings treating alcoholism, before it was banned. I used LSD some years ago, and it made me see everything from a new perspective. All of the ruts in which I'd found myself inescapably embedded, suddenly seemed trivial, I could see what I needed to do to conquer a lot of my problems. .
I read an article in New Scientist about their use. The author said that LSD, Ayahuasca, etc, act like a reset button for the brain, allowing you to free yourself from deeply ingrained patterns of thought. For those with crippling personality disorders, based on old, hardwired, repetitive thoughts, they could prove liberating. I would love to try Ayahuasca, but I'd only do so under medical supervision. Simon Amstell wrote an interesting account of his own experiences with the drug. He claims it was more effective than all his years of therapy combined.
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  #55  
Old 19th January 2019, 19:28
smoted smoted is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

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Originally Posted by Jimmy77
I read an article in New Scientist about their use. The author said that LSD, Ayahuasca, etc, act like a reset button for the brain, allowing you to free yourself from deeply ingrained patterns of thought. For those with crippling personality disorders, based on old, hardwired, repetitive thoughts, they could prove liberating. I would love to try Ayahuasca, but I'd only do so under medical supervision. Simon Amstell wrote an interesting account of his own experiences with the drug. He claims it was more effective than all his years of therapy combined.
What you're describing is precisely what I experienced. It's dumb as hell that even doctors can't use the stuff in a clinical setting, even if they believe it could turn someone's life around. Britain's drug laws are amongst the most embarrassing and childish on the planet.

Ayahuasca is pretty hardcore, the trip just goes on and on and on so I'm told. I've had my fair share of DMT though, which is the same thing without the enzyme inhibitor in ayahuasca which gives rise to its relatively immense duration, and that didn't help me at all. Just sheer chaos really, it's like taking 30 damn LSD blotters at once, and within literally 2 seconds you're so out of it that you're no longer aware that you're even a human being. On a small dose I once watched as my sofa started sweating and panting, had a huge tongue sticking out of its front, then started walking around the room. Incredibly intense experience but ultimately worthless for me personally, same as psilocybin, it's not that it isn't fun, but there's no real utility to it for me personally, unlike LSD which seems to be a legitimately powerful tool.
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  #56  
Old 26th January 2019, 11:24
HaveANiceDay HaveANiceDay is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Returning to the original issue in this thread, in my 40s I was just getting started. I'd also say happiness is overrated. Being particularly unhappy is not good, but beyond that I don't personally see it as a particularly interesting goal. Outside work I'm heavily involved (volunteering and funding) with an organisation that every week saves a lot of lives that most likely wouldn't be saved if I wasn't there. It doesn't usually make me happy, but it does provide meaning. I've never been a parent but my impression is that many parents likewise find meaning rather than happiness in parenting.
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  #57  
Old 23rd February 2019, 03:24
sparx sparx is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Hi Moksha

Itís pretty freaky reading your post - Iím the same age as you, still live at home and basically given up on pretty much everything. Iím a fool for not getting treatment when I first identified I had problems, instead I just let it spiral out of control and now thereís no turning back.

Last time I posted on here was in 2009 - ten years ago, Iím back again and things are worse now than they were then. I had a glimmer of hope back then, but not now.

I hope I donít stumble across any of my old posts, god knows what I posted, but no doubt itíll be too cringe to read ***128514;
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  #58  
Old 23rd February 2019, 04:29
Copernicium Copernicium is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoted
No sorry but this is wrong. LSD had great success in clinical settings treating alcoholism, before it was banned. I used LSD some years ago, and it made me see everything from a new perspective. All of the ruts in which I'd found myself inescapably embedded, suddenly seemed trivial, I could see what I needed to do to conquer a lot of my problems. That one experience lingered when i sobered up and I made real progress in tackling alcoholism. I imagine that in a clinical setting with a psychologist, it'd have had a better chance of beating my alcoholism than any other form of treatment i've tried. I also hear that psilocybin (magic mushrooms) yields around an 80% success rate when treating people addicted to nicotine.
The 'all drugs are bad, mkay?' mentality is ignorant, outdated and damaging to society.
Right, so according to you, people with mental health problems should just go ahead and try hallucinogenic drugs because you had a nice trip and you've heard good things about it helping with addiction. I notice however that your nice trip hasn't cured your alcoholism.

Unfortunately mental health problems are as wide ranging and unpredictable as the results of taking hallucinogenic drugs. Anyone who blithely says "yeah, go ahead, it'll give you a new perspective" is playing with fire. You don't know what is going on in other people's heads and to advocate LSD or similar as a golden ticket is irresponsible.
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  #59  
Old 23rd February 2019, 18:12
Consolida Consolida is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

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Originally Posted by HaveANiceDay
Returning to the original issue in this thread, in my 40s I was just getting started. I'd also say happiness is overrated. Being particularly unhappy is not good, but beyond that I don't personally see it as a particularly interesting goal. Outside work I'm heavily involved (volunteering and funding) with an organisation that every week saves a lot of lives that most likely wouldn't be saved if I wasn't there. It doesn't usually make me happy, but it does provide meaning. I've never been a parent but my impression is that many parents likewise find meaning rather than happiness in parenting.
That's a really nice post, HaveANiceDay, and I think it's lovely that you have found some meaning and purpose in your life by helping others.

Yes, you are right, parenting is very similar to this accept there comes a time when your children grow up and don't need you in the same way any more. This is why I think it's a godsend that there are voluntary organisations available for people to help out at if perhaps they feel that they have started to lose any meaningful sense of purpose within their lives.

Just need to get myself the courage to get involved in something like this
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  #60  
Old 24th February 2019, 16:30
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Reaching Your 40s and Giving Up

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Originally Posted by sparx
Hi Moksha

Itís pretty freaky reading your post - Iím the same age as you, still live at home and basically given up on pretty much everything. Iím a fool for not getting treatment when I first identified I had problems, instead I just let it spiral out of control and now thereís no turning back.

Last time I posted on here was in 2009 - ten years ago, Iím back again and things are worse now than they were then. I had a glimmer of hope back then, but not now.

I hope I donít stumble across any of my old posts, god knows what I posted, but no doubt itíll be too cringe to read ***128514;
Hi sparx. Sorry to hear things are even worse for you. Compared to ten years ago I'm more isolated (if that is even possible!) but more confident. In my teens and twenties I was crippled by an avoidant personality disorder. Gradually, thanks to time and lots of dating, I gained confidence. I'm more assertive and articulate now, and I care less what other people think of me (the single benefit of ageing). Unfortunately, these changes have come too late. I am trying to psyche myself up to internet date again, but I just can't be bothered. Also, my energy levels are dropping, and so is my libido. I'm at that stage in life when I should be painting the garden fence and watching my kids grow up, not dating. For years I wanted to socialize and date but couldn't; now I can but don't want to!!

That's not to say I'm sorted. I'm not. I still suffer extreme social anxiety and my avoidant personality disorder is still firmly in place. I am also weighed down by toxic shame. Living at home makes things worse. It increases my shame and makes a sex and social life harder. Maybe I'm being over-optimistic, but I feel that even now, at 42, having my own place would be a new lease of life. Turning 30 was awful, but turning 40 was even worse. It really did feel like a kind of death.
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