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#61
12th April 2019, 13:03
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
I'm partial to red wine and normally enjoy half a bottle at the weekends. Don't think that amount of alcohol should be harmful to me - then again, we keep hearing these studies that any amount of alcohol may be harmful. The only other drug that I take regularly is caffeine, and probably too much. I don't have any desire to dabble with "hard drugs".
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#62
12th April 2019, 13:33
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
I don't do any illegal drugs but I do drink alcohol. I only usually drink socially* but when I start I have no limits to the amount I consume and sometimes inevitably end up in situations I would never wish to be in. If I seriously thought about it I would probably quit entirely.
* for various values of socially. TBH when I'm on holiday I often end up drinking on my own, in the vain hooe I'll make some friends.
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#63
12th April 2019, 19:17
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
Don't do drugs, did weed once, got wobbly knees and ended up nodding off at about 7pm
 Rarely drink, If I'm out socially..which is increasingly rarer by the year..I will drink as I can at least hold a conversation after a few pints.
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#64
12th April 2019, 20:42
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
i took codeine for excruciating wisdom tooth pain & it knocked me out... it was amazing. but for me seems dangerous for how addictive they are.
I rarely have any alcohol & never taken drugs & im happy about that, i feel like they just add more problems.
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#65
12th April 2019, 21:03
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
I enjoy alcohol. Mostly social but every so often, like tonight, I fancy having a drink at home alone. Alcohol makes me relaxed, less anxious and sociable. I'm a friendly drunk and don't get aggressive in the slightest.
I don't drink too much, but I suppose that's subjective. There's a sweat spot window that lasts around 2 hours. So if I'm drinking beers, it's likely up to 4. And if wine, no more than a bottle. When drinking alone, I'm less stressed, relaxed and energetic in that sweat spot period. To avoid headaches and a cloudy mind (basically feeling like sh*t or a hangover) the next day I just drink plenty of water before bed and keep water close by during the night. Any hangover for me tends to be due to dehydration and plenty of water seems to work well. I've never taken any drugs or smoked. Never been interested in smoking. I'm more interested in drugs but I'm not interested in anything underhand and on the black market. I'd be more interested if anything was ever legalised and easily accessible. I also tend to dilute wine with water. I think I did this once to make a bottle last a little longer so I didn't have to drink more. I got used to the taste and now if I have wine somewhere where there's no water close by, wines are too strong and take a little bit of getting used to. So I'm accustomed to watered down wine.
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#66
13th April 2019, 23:02
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
I drink more than I should though trying to quite (but keep buckling).
Don't feel the need to justify, if you drink too much because boredom or loneliness gets the better of you, don't be afraid to say so. The amount you're drinking is not always an indicator, a more reliable indicator is whether you've tried to stop or cut down and failed or struggled, whether you get cravings, whether you are afraid you'll run out when you start. I know there's this silly attitude (particularly with alcohol) that you're either a normal drinker or an alcoholic, when in reality there's all sorts of different grades. What to do if you're concerned Write a list of all the benefits and cons of drinking (or taking drugs), and on the same paper list the costs of carrying on and the costs of stopping. Keep the list handy. This will be an indicator of what you need help with, what issues you're using the substance for. It's OK to be open Don't feel guilty if you're drinking more than you should or are turning to other substances, the more you feel you can reach out for help the better. Reading through this thread I can read the underlying fear is being seen as an 'alcoholic'; so many replies are coming from a place of fear of being judged. The fear is if you admit you're drinking too much, you'll be judged. It's understandable that you might not want to talk about things like this publicly, among people you don't know or have just met. It's nothing to be ashamed of, but at the same time, that's not justification to carry one. IF you're concerned, please reach out for help
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#67
13th April 2019, 23:11
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
Not at all. No alcohol, no cigarettes and no drugs, except coffee.
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#68
13th April 2019, 23:41
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
@hollowone, if you don't mind sharing - how much do you drink? I think it's very subjective. I would have thought 1 bottle of wine is a lot when saying it out loud but actually it's just 2.5 glasses and can be gone very quickly. Then when I think about it, a standard bottle of wine is around 750ml I think, so it's just above 1.5 pints.
If it's a bottle on the lower alcohol percentage side (say about 9%) it's not far off a few pints of stronger beer. But for arguments sake it may be equivalent of consuming 5-6 beers in alcohol, although it's the same as consuming only just above 1.5 pints of liquid. I don't think anyone would consider that amount of beer excessive but it tends to be frowned upon for people to say they drink a whole bottle of wine. I don't drink daily and on average it's not weekly even. So I'm quite a light drinker. Every so often I'll fancy a drink or there will be a few occasions where I'm drinking more regularly for a short period. A holiday, birthday or Christmas for example. And if some of those overlap I may drink more 1 month than I did for the rest of the year.
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#69
14th April 2019, 00:48
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
@ change
To be honest when I 'buckle' I will drink 6X 500ml cans of 5% beer. This might happen 3 times a week in a bad week (I know what some might be thinking). As I say, it's not the amount, it's the reason we're drinking in the first place (the thought that people are sneering if we admit the amount we're drinking might be a barrier to admitting). A whole bottle of wine would be the same as 4 pints of beer units wise as a rough guide (shiraz might be slightly worse, as a recent hangover proved). This excessive focus on amounts just creates anxiety, comparing ourselves to others, what is normal, who 'has a problem' & 'who doesn't'. That's not a good dynamic. It doesn't address the reasons we may have started and the reasons we engage in the behaviour. The differences between myself and others, is that I don't believe in the idea of the 'alcoholic', I DON'T BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE WHO TURN TO BOOZE OR DRUGS ARE BAD PEOPLE. Look at it this way, if you get addicted to cigarettes, they don't call you a 'smokaholic'. they don't blame you, they say it's an addictive drug. Yet if you have a problem with alcohol, OMG you're a weak, bad broken person, you're different, you're a different species. It's THAT attitude I have a problem with. The fears I've seen in the replies to this are manifestations. Why has the OP left a ? in the text space? The answer is simple; the STIGMA.
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#70
14th April 2019, 02:37
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
^ No I agree with that and focusing on the amounts rather than the reason for drinking isn't helpful.
Although, I'd concede there is a certain amount of alcohol that will become a problem even if the reason for drinking is innocent. Similarly, even if the reason is troublesome a low consumption is harmless. But for that large grey area in the middle, yes the reason is the most important thing to focus on. I think you're right about the stigma when people are perceived as tipping into the area of "alcoholic". It's very socially acceptable to drink, even in large quantities. But where, when and how you drink changes everything.
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#71
14th April 2019, 09:34
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
Quote:
I drink. I was always going to be lost to it from the word go. A convenient way to put some distance between me and my brain?! and ....feel actually good?!? There was no way I wouldn't be signing up for that. I realise its a problem and I'm still working on it. Last few months its been beers twice a week or so and I have the odd month off. (Caution...un asked for rant) Part of me wants to give it up and part of me doesn't want to say goodbye to one of the few things I genuinely enjoy. ALso I get kinda sick of this nagging holier than thou mum of a government we seem to have signed up for. We all have to be these saintly healthy well rounded people who live forever and never do anything too lively, unpredictable or expensive. Smokers, drinkers, fat people, people who get worked up, people who don't think its great to work 40 hr weeks...we didn't used to see them as "wrong" "Bad" people in need of social re alignment. I think some serious thinking aught to be done about this (by someone clever'er than me) before we wake up one day and realise we've been victims of our own success and we're over crowded with cow eyed domesticated pets who live forever but have no wildness left in them at all. People worry about the cost of (smokers and drinkers which are heavily taxed) to the NHS yet seem fine with the cost of people who live to 90 with multiple high cost operations and treatments but who stopped working 30 years ago. I'll grant you that alcoholism is no joke and nor is dying from cancer but the thing is PEOPLE NEED TO DIE OF SOMETHING OR YOUR CHILDREN ARE SCREWED! Personally I vote for trying to enjoy life as much as possible and popping my clogs at no later than 65. That Orwellian future is already here. By the time i'm 65 you'll probably have to buy twix on the black market and hide the evidence lest anyone find out.
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#72
14th April 2019, 10:34
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
Quote:
What really matters at any age is quality of life. So getting back to the topic in hand, the more damage you do to yourself with smoking and drinking and drugging, the worse the outcomes are likely to be when you get older. I know two people who drank themselves to death before they were 40. What a waste. Enjoying life now doesn't have to mean ingesting as many toxic chemicals as is humanly possible. But someone going down that route is damaging the quality of life of their future self. Imagine yourself in 20 years time standing in front of you. Don't think about what you would say to them, because they won't be interested. They already know what you have to say and they think you're an idiot. Instead imagine what they might say to you. Sorry, didn't mean to go off on a sideways rant, and I know most people in this thread are just worrying about having too much wine at the weekend, but the popping your clogs no later than 65 comment triggered me as it's the sort of nonsense I might have come out with 25 years ago. OK, back to jollity and laughter.
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#73
14th April 2019, 13:12
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
^ Yes I thought that, 65 is not that old. I'm in my early 30's and 21-31 went quick, so I'm ready for 31-41 to go even quicker. And witnessing people around me who are approaching or past 60. Well, they don't feel old. They don't want to be old and one thing I've realised is we don't change that much as we age. We just look older and the world treats us differently. But there's still a piece of us, stuck in our ideal age in our head that never goes away. And if you want to be here at 30, you're going to want to be here at 65.
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#74
14th April 2019, 16:16
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
Quote:
I agree. No doubt some addicts are just whiny, lazy, and selfish. Life hasn't worked out as it ought to ("if I can't be talented, rich and famous, what's the point?"), and so they turn to drugs instead. And I guess some must be hedonistic and stupid ("all that matters is me feeling good - to hell with everything else"). But the majority turn to drink and drugs in order to escape something. I bet if you lined up a hundred random addicts and asked them to tell you their life story it would involve some kind of trauma. Huge numbers of heroin addicts, for example, were sexually abused as kids. Others have lost a child, or been through a divorce or bereavement. Then there is mental illness. I once heard a psychiatrist say that drug users were often acting rationally. Without knowing it, they are trying to re-balance their wonky brain chemistry. For example, I knew someone who became a heavy coke user. Cocaine raises your self-esteem and makes you feel good about yourself. Unsurprisingly, she felt utterly ***t about herself. Look how people gravitate towards a specific drug, usually the one that addresses their needs. An abuse survivor wants to escape the demons in his head, so he avoids LSD, coke or speed and becomes addicted to heroin instead. Someone with chronic low self-esteem, however, wants to feel good about himself, so he uses coke, and so on. People who are quick to condemn overlook one glaringly obvious fact: being an addict is ****ing horrible!! No sane human being would choose to be an alcoholic. It means poverty, shame and self-loathing, plus constant physical illness and pain. Those who do condemn them seem to think they've avoided that fate because they are sensible and strong. In fact, it's usually because they are lucky: they've avoided major trauma and don't have a brain or nervous system that tortures them. Neither have they inherited a predisposition to anxiety, neurosis and so on. And when people think they are strong they are often just incredibly insensitive. They don't care about anyone, or anything, enough to be traumatized in the first place!
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#76
15th April 2019, 22:33
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
@ Moksha
Yes people drink to escape something, I think that's what discussion needs to be open about. For some bizarre reason there's this assumption that people who drink too much or use drugs are 'bad', yet the elephant in the room gets overlooked; the reason why they turned to it in the first place (& may or may not be still relevant today). I don't know if this assumption stems from society stereotypes, or deep seated fear or combination, I don't know. What I can't stand is this attitude 'you're drinking more than x a weak=filthy alcoholic, untouchable. We all have the same vulnerabilities. I don't agree with words such as 'addict' and 'alcoholic' because everyone is vulnerable to getting addicted (a learned pattern) that can result from misuse of a substances persistently over time (alcohol is a substance/drug). People get addicted to substances as a result of abusing them (self-medicating, binge drinking, hair of the dog or any combination of these hazardous patterns persisted over time). the reality is, that for any of you, that could be you one day. I can see that a lot of the earlier replies are based on fear (I get it's a hard topic to talk about, and hard to answer honestly), maybe some possible bending of the truth. I'm reading; 'I've been a good boy/good girl, I'm on the straight and narrow, please don't judge me, please don't see me as 'one of them'. IT SHOULDN'T BE LIKE THAT! If you're not worried about your drinking, fantastic, if you are, don't feel embarrassed to be honest like I have. I get why that might be difficult (the attitudes towards drinking are not acceptable). I will probably start another thread about alcohol and how it's seen differently from other substances in the 'addictions' sub-forum.
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#78
16th April 2019, 12:52
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
Quote:
Of course, not every addict or alcoholic is trying to escape pain. Some want to escape boredom. We underestimate this. I can think of several big drinkers (not alcoholics, just heavy drinkers) who drink because they are bored. They have that sulky, flat, miserable kind of personality that sneers at everything. They'd never read a book, look at the stars, go to an art gallery, etc. They don't seem interested in anything. Then they hang around with people who are just as miserable and bored as they are. Alcohol makes other people seem more interesting.
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#79
16th April 2019, 20:14
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
RE boredom
Yes, that's a massive reason people drink too much & can get into a pattern of heavy drinking. If persisted with over time it can lead to addiction. Regarding alcohol making people more interesting. If you're hanging with people with nothing in common, drinking can 'dumb yourself down' to the point where you find trite and boring conversations the most interesting thing in the world. I don't agree with this attitude that people who end up drinking excessively are selfish, lazy and stupid. It's attitudes like that which serve as a barrier to opening up about drinking and substances use, particularly for those who engage in it privately. It's attitudes like that which serve as a barrier to getting help. RE attitudes towards alcohol Look at people who get addicted to cigarettes; if people get addicted to them, the attitude is 'my gosh, that's an addictive substances poor you'. If it's alcohol the attitude is 'you're weak-willed and broken'. Alcohol is the only drug on the planet whereby if you develop a problem with it, they blame you. Alcohol is no different from any other substance in that if you abuse, and persist in abusing it, you will get addicted, like if you play with fire and persist in playing with fire, sooner or later you'l get burned. Can the person who got burned be considered to have weaker skin? The thing is, alcohol gets people addicted very slowly, usually over many years.
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#80
16th April 2019, 20:58
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
Quote:
You make a really interesting point about alcohol. It's true that our attitude to alcoholics is different. I'd never really thought about it before. Maybe it's because alcohol has been around for so long, so the idea of 'the lazy drunk' has imprinted itself on the national psyche. Also, there is a difference between a heavy drinker and a full blown alcoholic. The whiny self-pitier is more likely to be a heavy drinker. An alcoholic, however, is addicted. Has anyone ever seen 'Rain in my Heart'? It's a deeply moving documentary about alcoholics (and still available on youtube). One guy on there was clearly addicted to alcohol. The others were trying to blot out bad memories, or deal with the demons in their head, but he was different. At one point, he literally cries as he drinks an entire bottle of red wine in one go. That wasn't self-pity or selfishness or anything like it. It was mental illness.
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#81
16th April 2019, 21:37
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
Even what comes across as 'self-pitying' could be a lack of a particular coping skill in a certain area.
Some people do fit the stereotypical image of the alcoholic/addict. There's many things that could be said here. Maybe a bit of the old 'self-fulfilling prophecy'. Just because some people who drink too much do fit the stereotype doesn't make it right to assume people who've either turned to drink or substances or who are addicted are bad people. Another thing I'm really curious about is where do people get their ideas about people who have drinking problems. Is it Hollywood's portrayal of the alcoholic? is it the behaviour of a few aggressive drunks on the street? Our confirmation biases kicking-in tarring all people? No-one at school teaches you to chastise people who develop addictions. We get taught not to turn to drink and drugs to cope, but we never get taught to chastise and hate those who do turn to these things. You're right in the sense of heavy drinking (hazardous drinking) and being addicted. Getting addicted happens as a result of persistent heavy drinking. Self-medicating and binge drinking are two such patterns of heavy drinking that carry a higher risk of addiction. What I disagree with & what comes across is that you're suggesting that all people who turn to substances to self-medicate (who are heavy drinkers) do so because they're weak, lazy and pathetic. Some people turn to food, some people turn to gambling, some people turn to excess tv viewing. These are all forms of self-medicating in a way. That sort of attitude in my opinion comes from a place not of understanding (or humility), but from emotion & maybe ignorance. The humble attitude would be 'I don't know their situation'. You're welcome to have have an opinion.
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#83
17th April 2019, 10:50
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
I agree we should not judge alcoholics or drug addicts, even if there is apparent weakness, self-pitying or whatever. However, I suppose we need to draw some kind of line between hedonistic drug and alcohol abusers who are irresponsible and antisocial (I'm thinking of drink driving, violent lager louts and so on) and people struggling to cope with a genuine addiction. The truth is, though, that both camps will overlap and have underlying issues and so it's perhaps not for us or society to judge in either situation. Rather it needs to be a pragmatic response of law enforcement, education and rehabilitation in the former case and help and support in the latter. Fundamentally, we have to ask just how much in control of our own situation anyone of us is? Some people are perhaps just fortunate that they are well-balanced, addiction-free, all-round good eggs for no other reason than the way their brains have been configured, of which they may have had virtually no control! Who knows!
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#84
17th April 2019, 11:56
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
75 year old Keith Richards has given up vodka. The veteran rock'n'roller said:
Quote:
Live a life like Keef's and you too could look like this: 
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#85
17th April 2019, 13:01
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
There seems to be this attitude that people who drink too much, addicted or not are somehow weak, pathetic broken people. I argue that such attitudes make the problem worse. I don't get how shaming and pitying people who drink too much is supposed to help. All that does is it makes people who are drinking too much feel like shit. What do drinkers do when they feel crap? They drink.
There seems also to be this attitude that 'you're sticking to the straight and narrow, good boy/good girl', 'you're drinking more than that eww! dirty alcoholic! (whether or not the person is addicted)'. Is this binary view that someone's either a 'normal' drinker or an 'alcoholic'. It's not only wrong and incorrect, but it's potentially damaging. It's so badly ingrained that if people are drinking more than they should do, maybe the habit of 'wine o-clock', maybe drinking alone to escape loneliness, people are afraid to admit it. I'm quite happy to be honest about the amount I'm drinking because I don't believe in this binary view of drinking problems, I see it as a spectrum; starts as hazardous use, then psychological addiction, then physical addiction. Secondly, I know there's no severe negative consequences to be suffered from doing so. My attitude is some people will judge, some won't. Of those who do, sod them, live & let live. That's just the way it is. I'm sure on a board like this there's probably tons of people who are unhappily lonely & it's likely a good percentage of people engage in self-medication of some sort. Hell, there's even been people I've met on here and been in contact with who've admitted they drink to cope with loneliness (it's very, very common). I'm sure there's plenty of people who've used it to cope with social anxiety too. One thing that can happen is that you can fall into a rut whereby the only thing you do socially is hang around drinking or only socialize where drinking is involved. This too is another risk for developing problems. Here's something else, for those who do drink more than a sensible amount, they won't admit it or they won't be honest about it. Why? For fear of being judged by it. It's not so much addiction, it's hazardous patterns like drinking alone, self-medicating & using it to cope that people are afraid to admit (a precipitating factor).
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#86
17th April 2019, 17:11
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
Quote:
However, that doesn't mean you should never judge. For example, I knew someone who grew up with an alcoholic mother. She once said to me, "my mother spent her entire life in a sulk. She always wanted more: fame, talent, a new boyfriend, a bigger house, more money, etc. When she realized she couldn't have those things, she escaped into drink. It was as simple as that." Most addicts have someone who loves or depends on them. They don't just hurt themselves, in other words. I suppose what I'm saying is that we must be careful not to swing too far in the other direction. I certainly believe we should be more compassionate. I feel intensely sorry for the majority of alcoholics and drug addicts. They lead terrible, sad lives (people forget this), filled with pain and guilt. But it would be a mistake to describe every heavy drug or alcohol user as a victim. At some point, no matter what sh*t life has thrown at you, you do have to take responsibility, even if that just means asking for help. And that is especially true of people with children.
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#87
17th April 2019, 17:38
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
Quote:
As you suggest, there are other addicts who weren't abused and don't have a specific mental illness, like bi-polar disorder, yet still need some kind of crutch or escape. Many people struggle in life because of their basic personality type. They have a cluster of traits that just make life SO ****ing hard: they are hypersensitive, have low tolerance to stress, find socializing difficult, sleep poorly, and generally live their lives in a state of mild sadness and despair. But they aren't mentally ill, or not in a way that can be pinned down, and so no one has any sympathy when they turn to vodka and weed. I once heard Ricky Gervais make a nasty comment about depressed people. But he has a cheery, shallow, resilient kind of personality. People like Gervais can no more understand an avoidant, neurotic personality type than a giraffe can understand a shark. Some people are SO different they're like separate species. Hopefully, as DNA testing becomes more accurate and common, we'll understand the role genes play in forming your personality. And once that happens, there should be more patience and sympathy (not forcing a shy introvert to take a job in a sales office or busy shop, for example). I'm convinced I inherited a personality disorder from my father. The melancholic, negative, introverted, avoidant, paranoid traits were there, in the DNA. People who aren't like that, who are upbeat, cheerful, resilient, extrovert, high-energy types, just have no ****ing clue how hard life is for the introverted melancholic. For some people, life would be unendurable without drink and drugs.
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#88
18th April 2019, 00:57
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
@ moksha,
drinking is a complex subject, it's good that you acknowledge. As long as your behaviour doesn't hurt other people, or make people feel uncomfortable (like the lager louts you mentioned, they deserve a whole thread, I've never understood why people need to be pissed before meeting people). I agree that no-one should see themselves as a victim. Here's where there's two parts to the argument. If we feel we've been treated unfairly or not had the best of circumstances, it can be comforting to focus on that, it can be helpful to acknowledge that our circumstances are not always all or fault, all very well and good BUT, this can go too far the other way, I'm hearing that. It's a problem if we end up seeing ourselves as helpless. If we focus on it too much, we can feel we have little power to control our situation. If people do appear to have a 'victim complex' it's important to understand where they're coming from. Often people have had factors that have been stacked against them. The thing is, there's very little education out there on how to cope with that in a healthy way.
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#89
3rd July 2019, 22:34
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
Never done drugs and have seen what it can do to people as an old school friend died from drugs, I'm a social drinker not a much as i used to and i'm trying to drink less and focus on my climbing abit more!
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#90
21st July 2019, 16:59
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Re: Do you drink or take drugs?
God, I wish drugs were good for you. Imagine if heroin and cocaine were like raw carrots and broccoli!! You have a bad day at work, fight through the traffic to your tiny hobbit house, argue with your partner, etc., but then, when you feel utterly miserable and s***, you've got this blissful escape.
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