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  #1  
Old 23rd October 2018, 21:46
BritishPeace BritishPeace is offline
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Default Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have SA?

For instance I have SA because cameras and video and mirrors are invented basically, if I didn’t know what I looked like and how ugly I am why would I hate myself? I wouldn’t, if there was no material to see myself
in I wouldn’t know I was ugly and therefore I wouldn’t be anxious. I have always thought I’d be better as a Tudor or Norman, the invention of reflective surfaces is the worst thing that happened for me!
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  #2  
Old 23rd October 2018, 22:18
man afraid of his horses man afraid of his horses is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Wouldn't happen, interesting notion though. We humans, even the humble ones , have wayyy to much ego to resist the urge to see our outer-selves and feed our inflated sense of impotence.
I imagine the first humanoids gazed into pools of water and couldn't resist pomping that fringe. That's right, cave boy elvis existed. Maybe.

If we lived in more tribal societies tho in smaller groups I think everyone would be better off. How realistic that is I don't know...oh, and I'd be chief, obviously.
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  #3  
Old 23rd October 2018, 22:32
A lump of Excrement A lump of Excrement is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Quote:
If we lived in more tribal societies tho in smaller groups I think everyone would be better off. How realistic that is I don't know...oh, and I'd be chief, obviously.
This all the way, as long as I can be second in command.
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  #4  
Old 24th October 2018, 17:06
Jimmy77 Jimmy77 is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Yeah, I've often wondered about this. It's hard to believe that medieval peasants or anglo-saxon farmers had OCD and social anxiety! To be socially anxious you need to be intensely self-conscious, and that's a very modern thing.
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  #5  
Old 31st October 2018, 14:14
limey123 limey123 is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Certainly the Anglo-Saxons had the concept of first-person narrative and also the concept of being an outcast in society - you only have to look at the extant poems The Wanderer and The Seafarer to see that. I can't remember when the first first-person narrative appeared in English but those poems must count among the first instances that have come down to us.
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  #6  
Old 1st November 2018, 10:10
affluenza affluenza is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

I do think different people flourish in different time periods.
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  #7  
Old 7th November 2018, 02:28
scarlettgirl scarlettgirl is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Well I do believe that a lot of modern tech doesn't help at all. The fascination with selfies, facebook, social media etc. It makes people more aware of themselves and vainer. I can't imagine being a kid at school anymore with facebook around. Bullying must be so much more horrendous for that.
It's double edged though, because in some ways the support of the internet has helped me cope
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  #8  
Old 7th November 2018, 11:15
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlettgirl
I can't imagine being a kid at school anymore with facebook around. Bullying must be so much more horrendous for that.
)
I have often thought the same scarlett. Knowing what vicious, evil little ****s some kids can be (not all of course), it terrifies me. Imagine some humiliating incident from your teens: that time you fell down the stairs at school, that time X tripped you up and you fell into a puddle, etc. Now imagine someone films it on an Iphone and puts it on youtube...forever. I bet right now some bitchy 14-year-old is posting something nasty about a girl in her class. And there's no escape. You have to join in and post or you will be out of the loop and left behind. Ugghh, horrible. At least when I was at school in the '90s you could come home, shut the door and relax. Now, the little ****ers can follow you into your bedroom. Jesus, kids wake up and the first thing they do is turn on their phone and scroll through their messages. You can be bullied before you have even got out of bed in the morning! And people wonder why there is a mental health crisis among the young!

The fact that stuff can never be erased really scares me. I know of a guy who was caught grooming an underage girl online. He is about 36 and she was 14 or 15. He then drove to meet her, but instead a group of angry parents were waiting and filmed the whole thing. The guy isn't weird or dangerous, and he'd never done anything like it before (probably just watching too much porn and living in a bit of a fantasyland). I very much doubt he'd have done anything if a real girl had turned up. Anyway, they posted the video on youtube, with his name above it. He went to court and it was reported in the Daily Mail. That story is also online. Even now, three years later, if you type his name into google, that video and article comes up. He is ****ed forever. Terrifying.
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  #9  
Old 8th November 2018, 10:46
Marco Marco is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

I’m certainly glad that I grew up long before the internet (well, the world wide web strictly speaking) and social media, which I’ve no doubt can put tremendous pressure on children and cause terrible anxiety in different ways. Besides that, though, I do think there has been a cultural shift over the last 50 years or so with the growth of the service industries since the decline of manufacturing, with a much greater value placed on the soft skills, being a good communicator and so on. It’s these skills that seem to be a basic requirement to get on in nearly every sphere nowadays. I do wonder if social anxiety disorder is much more debilitating to sufferers today than in the past.

Last edited by Marco; 8th November 2018 at 11:37. Reason: Changed the wording slightly to try clarify my point.
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  #10  
Old 8th November 2018, 20:19
scarlettgirl scarlettgirl is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Moksha god that story sounds awful. Social media can really wreck lives. And yes completely different and probably more manageable in the 90s in some ways. When I came home from school my bedroom was a nice retreat. There was no internet nor connection to anything like that, it was an actual escape from all that crap. I still had a nice time wallowing there haha but it wasn't like I could torture myself with the likes of facebook etc.

Marco: I've noticed it too, so many job descriptions seem to mention 'excellent communication skills' and my heart immediately drops and I more or less forget it
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  #11  
Old 8th November 2018, 20:34
jinny jinny is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

A 36 year old grooming a 14-15 year old and arranging to meet her is both weird and dangerous.

Terrifying that someone might not see that scenario as SO WRONG. 14 is a child. I love that there are people decent enough to try and catch that kind of scum. It needs doing. I love that he has been shamed forever. Good. Creep.
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  #12  
Old 8th November 2018, 22:48
scarlettgirl scarlettgirl is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

oo ok i did misread the age there...36?! yeah there is something extremely wrong with that, and in that case social media is useful for protecting kids from that situation. Whether you 'doubt he would do anything' doesn't hold water. He could very well have done, and you don't want that risk whether he seemed harmless or not. Sometimes harmless seeming folk are the worst for it!
Yeah just wanted to clear that up, im with jinny there lol

But it is bad in other situations where people get hounded who are misidentified as the wrong person, or something like that.
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  #13  
Old 8th November 2018, 23:31
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlettgirl
Whether you 'doubt he would do anything' doesn't hold water. He could very well have done, and you don't want that risk whether he seemed harmless or not. Sometimes harmless seeming folk are the worst for it!
.
Quite true. He may have done something. To be honest, I only know him by sight. My impression is simply that he wouldn't have done. He seemed to me like one of those men who live their lives through Internet porn. They then become trapped in a kind of fantasyland. I suspect that had a real 14-year-old turned up he'd have freaked out and thought "what the **** am I doing here?" But maybe not. As you say, you can't take the chance. There was no girl btw. It was one of those vigilante groups who pose as young teens to catch predators. He didn't even get a custodial sentence, which is quite shocking (just a caution, plus 10 years on the sex offender's register). But that's not the real punishment for such people. It's the exposure and shame. The same is true of men caught paying for child pornography. It gets reported in the local newspaper that they've been cautioned, etc, and everyone says "he deserved much worse." But they forget that that story is now out there forever. There is no escape. Twenty years from now someone could google his name and it will appear.

In the case of men like that, well, they deserve it, but it's still quite scary. I have a recurrent fear of someone filming me and then the whole thing going viral – like that guy who was filmed yelling his name over and over again at that motorcyclist. Or those men who filmed themselves burning a model of Grenfell Tower. When you think back over your life at all the humiliating moments – those moments that still make you cringe...now imagine someone filming it and uploading it to a video sharing site!! I remember a heartbreaking documentary about a woman whose son had killed himself after he was bullied. The final straw was when a group of his classmates set up a website called "We Hate Felix," presumably including video clips, etc. He then became the laughing stock of the whole school. Ugghh, thank god I am not a teenager today.
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  #14  
Old 9th November 2018, 00:06
jinny jinny is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Yeh, I don't think I would burn an effigy of a building where many people had recently lost their lives.

That's why social media doesn't worry me so much, I am not a massive arse.
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  #15  
Old 9th November 2018, 00:12
scarlettgirl scarlettgirl is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moksha
Quite true. He may have done something. To be honest, I only know him by sight. My impression is simply that he wouldn't have done. He seemed to me like one of those men who live their lives through Internet porn. They then become trapped in a kind of fantasyland. I suspect that had a real 14-year-old turned up he'd have freaked out and thought "what the **** am I doing here?" But maybe not. As you say, you can't take the chance. There was no girl btw. It was one of those vigilante groups who pose as young teens to catch predators. He didn't even get a custodial sentence, which is quite shocking (just a caution, plus 10 years on the sex offender's register). But that's not the real punishment for such people. It's the exposure and shame. The same is true of men caught paying for child pornography. It gets reported in the local newspaper that they've been cautioned, etc, and everyone says "he deserved much worse." But they forget that that story is now out there forever. There is no escape. Twenty years from now someone could google his name and it will appear.

In the case of men like that, well, they deserve it, but it's still quite scary. I have a recurrent fear of someone filming me and then the whole thing going viral – like that guy who was filmed yelling his name over and over again at that motorcyclist. Or those men who filmed themselves burning a model of Grenfell Tower. When you think back over your life at all the humiliating moments – those moments that still make you cringe...now imagine someone filming it and uploading it to a video sharing site!! I remember a heartbreaking documentary about a woman whose son had killed himself after he was bullied. The final straw was when a group of his classmates set up a website called "We Hate Felix," presumably including video clips, etc. He then became the laughing stock of the whole school. Ugghh, thank god I am not a teenager today.
In the cases of paedophilia or people doing something so sick as to burn a model of the grenfell tower, i think they're deserving of that shame and exposure for the rest of their lives. In those cases social media is doing the general public a GREAT service in exposing such scum.

the situation with the teenage boy killing himself is entirely separate and tragic and of course an example of online bullying to the extreme. It is that case, and other such instances of school bullying that make me think social anxiety can be intensified by social media.
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  #16  
Old 9th November 2018, 00:31
jinny jinny is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Absolutely, they are so different
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  #17  
Old 9th November 2018, 13:01
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlettgirl
In the cases of paedophilia or people doing something so sick as to burn a model of the grenfell tower, i think they're deserving of that shame and exposure for the rest of their lives. In those cases social media is doing the general public a GREAT service in exposing such scum.

the situation with the teenage boy killing himself is entirely separate and of course an example of online bullying
Yeah, obviously they are totally different. But whether you have done something evil (like pay for child pornography), or something silly (like yell your name over and over at a motorcyclist like... what was that guy's name?), or have been the victim of someone else (like the boy who was bullied), the results are the same: permanent exposure. I read an article a while ago by someone who'd been at Oxford with a guy who planned to go into politics. She said that whenever they took photos of themselves getting drunk and acting like idiots, he would dive out of shot. And he insisted any photos or videos of him were deleted. Obviously he didn't want them to resurface when he became an MP! It makes me wonder where it will end. I could never have imagined something like an Iphone when I was at school. What will kids have to put up with in 2025? Or 2030?
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Old 9th November 2018, 13:32
Marco Marco is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

I get your point Moksha, although your example of a paedophile was rather ill judged I think. But you’re absolutely right that any foolish, moment of madness behaviour - and let’s face it we’re all guilty of having behaved like total arses at one time or other - now runs the risk of being filmed and recorded for posterity. It’s truly terrifying, like a collective Big Brother in a way even Orwell hadn’t considered. Thank god Youtube and mobile phones with cameras and video recorders weren’t around when I was a lad!
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Old 9th November 2018, 13:43
Vasco Da Gama Vasco Da Gama is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinny
That's why social media doesn't worry me so much, I am not a massive arse.
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  #20  
Old 9th November 2018, 14:41
Jimmy77 Jimmy77 is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moksha
Yeah, obviously they are totally different. But whether you have done something evil (like pay for child pornography), or something silly (like yell your name over and over at a motorcyclist like... what was that guy's name?), or have been the victim of someone else (like the boy who was bullied), the results are the same: permanent exposure.
There was an example of this near me over the summer. Four boys threw flour and water over a mentally ill woman in a park in Bury St Edmunds and then had a photo taken, with themselves jeering and laughing behind her. They then uploaded it (to Facebook I think). But a few people were disgusted, sent it on to other friends and the whole thing snowballed. Eventually, their names were exposed and the photo appeared in The Daily Mail! I believe one of them was stabbed and the rest were placed under police protection. Obviously they were horrible little ****s for doing it in the first place, but that kind of exposure would have been unimaginable 20 or 30 years ago.
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  #21  
Old 9th November 2018, 16:09
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy77
that kind of exposure would have been unimaginable 20 or 30 years ago.
I remember a boy at school with ginger hair who cried one day and was nicknamed "the ginger whinger." We would have been about 12 at the time (so this was around 1992). Imagine that happening today! Someone films him on their Iphone and posts it on youtube with the title "The Ginger Whinger". It then goes viral and you have people posting comments from the United States and Australia ("haha...what a baby", etc etc). He comes into school the next day and everyone starts sniggering. Then at breaktime a friend shows him the clip. Imagine what they would do to a shy, self-conscious child! Stuff like that must be happening all the time.
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  #22  
Old 9th November 2018, 20:13
scarlettgirl scarlettgirl is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

I keep forgetting that the year 1999 was almost like 20 years ago (man I'm old lol), and how different so many things must be for kids at school these days. The bullying is on a whole different level.

To bring it back to the original subject; do you think social anxiety was even a 'thing' hundreds of years ago? I'm sure people had vanity etc but it isn't the same thing. Is SA created by society or has it always been like that? Is it just a personality trait some of us have no matter the circumstance or a result of environment?! I'm so fascinated.
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  #23  
Old 10th November 2018, 15:26
Moksha Moksha is offline
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Default Re: Have you ever thought if you lived in a different time period you wouldn’t have S

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlettgirl

To bring it back to the original subject; do you think social anxiety was even a 'thing' hundreds of years ago? I'm sure people had vanity etc but it isn't the same thing. Is SA created by society or has it always been like that? Is it just a personality trait some of us have no matter the circumstance or a result of environment?! I'm so fascinated.
I agree Scarlett, it is fascinating. I have often wondered if people used to suffer from OCD, tourettes (apparently, Dr Johnson did, and that was in the 1740s), post-natal depression and so on. Clearly depression has always been around. Byron, for example, was bipolar. The Divine Comedy also opens with a description of depression, and that was 1200(ish).

Maybe it comes down to how civilized people were/are? Once a society reaches a certain level of sophistication, these mental health problems begin to manifest. I mean, it's hard to imagine one of Genghis Khan's warriors suffering with insomnia and OCD. But I could imagine a Roman aristocrat suffering from such things. Civilization depends on repression and self-control, and that means neurotic illness. I'm not sure though. Human nature hasn't changed that much. Cultures vary and change enormously, but these disorders must have been there, lurking beneath the surface, for as long as humans have been human. Maybe even neolithic hunters experienced something like social anxiety. It may not have taken the form it does in 21st-century Britain, but it was probably there.
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