Dealing with confrontation

[Moksha]

How do you deal with confrontation? In the last week I've had two incidents:

1) So I'm driving down a country lane near me (where people regularly do 60 or 70 mph), and there is a guy walking towards the traffic. You can walk on this road (I've done so myself), but I always stand on the grass verge when a car is coming. Anyway, I basically had to slow almost to stopping until the road was clear enough for me to pull round him. As I did so, I raised my eyebrows and slightly opened the palms of my hands (as if to say "come on man, you're going to get run over"), and he went ****ing ballistic! He was a big guy, and as I pulled round him he punched my side window with all his strength (literally tried to put his fist through). Then he screamed "you ****, you think I wanna ****ing walk," and chased after the car. If he'd had a knife or a gun, he'd have killed me.

2) In Tescos this morning, I reached out to get a packet of fish and a guy half muttered to his wife, half said out loud, "for god's sake wait...some people just can't wait," or something like that. It was odd, as I hadn't reached across him, or barged into him, or anything. He was a small guy, much smaller than me, and he wasn't being particularly aggressive. It wasn't until I'd begun to move away that I even realized he was talking to me.

How do you deal with these kinds of incidents? Being a man, I still have this idiotic feeling that I should never back down. I know guys who would have pulled their car over, leapt out and confronted that guy, which would 100% have ended in a fist fight in the middle of the road. In the second incident, I'm glad I didn't say anything. I hate that kind of petty, nasty confrontation. I wasn't afraid of him, but it would have bugged me for days if we'd had a row. It's so horrible - so ugly and depressing.

[Dougella]

^ That first guy was obviously having a particularly bad day.

Both situations I think just ignoring and moving on is the best course of action.

[biscuits]

Hi

With situation one, it sounds like the guy completely overreacted, but he was following the Highway Code and not doing anything wrong. Be careful because you never know how people will react!

Supermarket rage seems to be on the rise! I wouldn't worry too much about that sort of thing. Sometimes people are having a bad day or responding to a collection of annoyances.

[Amara 94]

^Reminds me of a book I read by someone called Paul Connolly. He would pick fights with men in road rage due to the fact he was abused in a kids home, saw kids get sexually and physically abused, at the time authorities also ignored the abuse as well. So he had lots of rage inside of him.

I guess, when not standing up to someone that appears aggressive it helps to remember they are acting the way they are because of their own issues.

[Tembo]

I think it’s best to just ignore those situations. Well, most of the time I do anyway. I do occasionally have issues with my anger. I once shouted at a white van man to get off his mobile phone while he was driving (obviously that’s a BIG mistake). He slammed the brakes on, and got out to try and start a fight with me. I was a C-word apparently (to be fair he probably had a point). How incredibly stupid of me to do that - I think I was really angry with the world on that particular day.

Some people think that we should ‘man up’ (good old gender stereotypes) to such situations, however in the situations you have described, it isn’t worth reacting at all. Let the angry people just have their silly moment and walk/drive away, as saying anything can just aggravate them. Not worth it when many people carry weapons or are high on drugs.

[LittleMissMouse]

I just end up backing down and walking away from anything confrontational, but mostly because I just freeze and can never think of anything to say rather than any conscious decision.

I ruminate over stuff like that for months though, perhaps even years, I would still be thinking about who was in the wrong and whether I should have said or done something different 6 months later.

[limey123]

I've experienced a couple of road rage incidents, in the first of which this complete twat drove dangerously in order to force me off the road and then got out of his car, shouted abuse at me, bent my windscreen wiper, punched my window as hard as he could and threatend to "f**king kill you" as loud as he could. He eventually calmed down and drove off. In another incident, to cut a longer story short, another knob tried or at least simulated running me off the road (so endangering himself and other road users as well) and clearly indicated that he wanted me to pull over so he could "sort things out". I wonder what he would have done had I actually pulled over? There are cameras everywhere now and I would have filmed any of his behaviour on my phone.

Lots of so-called adults in our society who can barely control themselves over trifles, it seems.

PS: I also learned, as Temobo said, not to react or further inflame already angry people. In the past, I might have confronted someone over their bad behaviour to indicate my displeasure, but that can have serious consequences. Better to leave the angry people alone and get away from them as soon as you can, even if the entire situation is of their making.

[Consolida]

It would irritate me if someone was walking down a country lane and making no effort to acknowledge that I was trying to pass in my car. If I'm out walking I always move to the side of the road or step onto the grass verge so would find it inconsiderate and foolhardy that this man wasn't doing the same thing. However, unlike you Moksha, I wouldn't have made my irritation obvious because as you unfortunately found out for yourself some people can over react aggressively. Angry name calling or even a fist fight is one thing but these days you never know if someone will pull out a knife or a gun. Your safety is paramount and so I think it's best to walk away from angry people.

The irritable man in Tesco's sounds like he was just having a grumble to his wife about you being in his space and possibly would have been mortified if you'd confronted him about it. You did the right thing by not responding. During the height of the Pandemic I was fuming when people without masks would brush pass me in the supermarket and I'd say to my husband that I was going to say something but thankfully I listened to him and kept quiet. Confrontation is just not worth it.

Also, imperfect_perfectionist makes a good point about angry people having their own issues. It's safer to leave angry people alone while their rage diffuses.

That said, if I witnessed someone being cruel to a child or an animal I would confront that person with all guns blazing and wouldn't consider the consequences.

[AnxiousExtrovert]

Originally Posted by Candleholder

I am disturbed by the amount of adults whose immediate response to confrontation is violence. I can be assertive and I don't mind a shouting match, but I can't imagine many situations where I would want to physically hurt someone. But it seems like there are a lot of people out there who are permanently furious and it only takes the slightest provocation to make them go crazy. So I would say that if the only thing that's at stake is your pride then it's probably wiser to back down.

It's surprisingly common or at least fantasised about considering as you say we're talking about adults.

The flipside is that I've encountered people who are so deliberately overbearing and bullying in a passive aggressive way that I wonder if a complete lack of physical confrontation has allowed that too.

I agree with people on here saying best thing regarding the irrational, outrage opportunist types is to usually back off . Your ego can soon get caught up in a situation where you're engaging with someone who isn't of sound mind.

[biscuits]

As a general rule, you should set boundaries and be able to stick up for yourself (assertively and respectfully) in your personal relationships and work place. You know, in places with people you are regularly with. It's important to be able to deal with those sorts of confrontations, which shouldn't really arise all that often.

People generally experience negative feelings about random strangers saying things to them. Even if they don't respond to them at the time, guaranteed people will find someone to express their embarrassment/upset/annoyance too. It's something everyone ruminates on because it makes you feel a bit of shock.

[Dougella]

^ It seems from everyone's experiences here and what I've seen myself that a lot of people have unresolved anger issues (I don't mean people here I mean the general public), don't know how to express their emotions in a healthy way and don't know how to appropriately set boundaries or be assertive for themselves!

[Jen.]

Originally Posted by Moksha

2) In Tescos this morning, I reached out to get a packet of fish and a guy half muttered to his wife, half said out loud, "for god's sake wait...some people just can't wait," or something like that. It was odd, as I hadn't reached across him, or barged into him, or anything. He was a small guy, much smaller than me, and he wasn't being particularly aggressive. It wasn't until I'd begun to move away that I even realized he was talking to me.

How do you deal with these kinds of incidents? Being a man, I still have this idiotic feeling that I should never back down. I know guys who would have pulled their car over, leapt out and confronted that guy, which would 100% have ended in a fist fight in the middle of the road. In the second incident, I'm glad I didn't say anything. I hate that kind of petty, nasty confrontation. I wasn't afraid of him, but it would have bugged me for days if we'd had a row. It's so horrible - so ugly and depressing.

Shopping during the last year has been an emotional/anxious experience for a lot of people, so comments like this are probably best just ignored and forgotten about. Even if you're not stood particularly close to someone or getting in their way, it might feel to them like you're doing something wrong because they're already stressed and in a state of high alert. I don't think there's anything you can do in the moment to make the situation better for either of you though. I had two very similar experiences almost a year ago, but they included racist comments (one time was from a member of public when I was walking at least 4m away from her, the other time from a supermarket worker when I was waiting patiently for her to finish restocking so that I could then move past). It doesn't matter if you haven't done anything wrong, but you suffer twice if you get spoken to in a bad way during a confrontation and then dwell on it forever.

[biscuits]

^^ definitely! I struggle with dealing with anger because it's not an emotion that I experience very often. I can only remember feeling furious once. I'm not sure what to do when I feel it. It's one of those emotions that we are told not to express and feel that we should suppress it, but if you do that then it builds up. And on the surface it looks like people seem to explode at the smallest of things, but that's not likely the true story behind the outburst.

[AnxiousExtrovert]

I think there is a lot of unresolved anger in the world. The problems with these incidents is almost confusion how to act. Everyone wants to maintain their boundaries but its hard when people have a chip set off really quick regarding losing face or not giving an inch.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by imperfect_perfectionist

^Reminds me of a book I read by someone called Paul Connolly. He would pick fights with men in road rage due to the fact he was abused in a kids home, saw kids get sexually and physically abused, at the time authorities also ignored the abuse as well. So he had lots of rage inside of him.

I guess, when not standing up to someone that appears aggressive it helps to remember they are acting the way they are because of their own issues.

This is so true. A lot of people, especially men, carry SO much anger. Or maybe it's pain (don't psychologists consider suicide pain turned inward and violence pain turned outward?). When you confront such men, you morph into their stepdad, who used to beat them up, or a local bully, who used to humiliate them, or the guy their wife ran off with, etc. The guy who punched my window hit it with all his strength. In fact, it's a miracle he didn't put his fist through. If I'd pulled over, he would have gone for me with every ounce of his strength. To be honest, had he had a baseball bat he'd have killed me. Where the hell did that anger come from? It wasn't me. I didn't swear at him, or stick a finger up - merely gestured as if to say "it's mad to walk in the middle of the road, I could have run you over." I do know men, like my father and cousin, who would have leapt out of the car. It must happen all the time. How are there not more murders?!!

But there is another kind of confrontation - the petty, niggly sort, where someone snipes at you for parking too close or taking too long to choose a drink, etc. I really try and avoid these. I know myself, and if I get involved in such a row it will torment me for weeks. I'll chew over every goddam thing I said, and didn't say, until it drives me insane. Other people can have a blazing row with their neighbour and literally forget it happened two days later.

[Dougella]

^ There's something about the fact that traditionally anger was the only emotion that men were allowed to show, so everything from grief to fear to frustration gets turned into anger.

[Tembo]

^ Thankfully this is slowly beginning to change. However, BOTH men and women are still enforcing these stereotypical traits, when they expect men to ‘man up’, ‘be a man’, ‘stop being such a girl’. This is one reason why we still see men repressing their emotions, only for them to all to come out as anger. It all ties in to the high male suicides too I think.

Not saying it’s all someone else’s fault, as those with anger issues have a responsibility to try and change that themselves, but gender stereotypes do not help matters.

[Tonkin]

Although the guy in the first incident probably overacted a bit, I ****ing hate it when people in cars gesture or do things they would never dare do face to face, seemingly because they think they can get away with it because they are cocooned in the their car.

If I was walking and someone in a car gestured at me like that I would lose my shit!

What I've learned about confrontation over the years, though, is that it's best to walk away.

If you walk away, your pride is hurt and you feel like shit for a while.

If you get involved and they come out better, not only is your pride is hurt, but you end up physically hurt, often with bruises or cuts that everyone else can see, making the hurt pride 10x worse.

If you get involved and come out better, you have the added guilt and worry that you are going to get into serious trouble for how you reacted, especially if you're a worrier like me! If it goes too far, you can even have charges, prosecutions and court cases to worry about and all the drama that can bring, apparently...

I find it very hard to know if the person being confrontational is doing it because they know they're a double hard bastard, or they aren't hard but are counting on no one daring to stand up to them. So with that in mind, it's better to walk away as you never know what you're getting into.

Hurt pride from not responding is not bad as the hurt pride from reacting and it going wrong.

[Dougella]

^ I deliberately don't look at people in cars so I wouldn't see if people gesture at me

[Jen.]

This morning I was almost at the other side of a two lane road when I heard angry beeping from a car passing behind me (on the first of the two lanes). It wasn't a kind of "Hey, watch out!" single beep, it was multiple "You're a ****ing idiot!" beeps. I'm pretty certain I wasn't the idiot in this situation though. They must have been going pretty fast since they weren't anywhere near when I decided to cross, and I was already almost on the other side of the road when they turned the corner behind me. If they had been anywhere near when I decided to cross then I would have waited to see what they were doing, as I always do.

I usually do nothing in these situations, and if I do ever react it's because of a conscious decision to act and not some compulsive expression of anger. I almost decided to put a finger up at them, not because I was angry but because I know I would have enjoyed annoying someone who had no right to be annoyed with me. I didn't though. I didn't see what the driver was like or how many people were in the car. Sometimes things like this just make me laugh. If some is displaying such frustration at, in their mind, being delayed by a fraction of a second at 6:30am in a residential area, even though they hadn't been, then they probably have much worse things going on in their lives and so the universe gets balanced in that way.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Tonkin

Although the guy in the first incident probably overacted a bit, I ****ing hate it when people in cars gesture or do things they would never dare do face to face, seemingly because they think they can get away with it because they are cocooned in the their car.

If I was walking and someone in a car gestured at me like that I would lose my shit!

What I've learned about confrontation over the years, though, is that it's best to walk away.

If you walk away, your pride is hurt and you feel like shit for a while.

If you get involved and they come out better, not only is your pride is hurt, but you end up physically hurt, often with bruises or cuts that everyone else can see, making the hurt pride 10x worse.

I just don't know what came over me. Normally, I never gesture at people. On the contrary, I go out of my way to be pleasant. And that's partly because I can't bear rudeness, partly because I know how many lunatics are out there. Anyway, it wasn't a "get out of my way idiot," kind of gesture, more a "isn't a bit silly to walk in the middle of the road, mate, I could have run you over" kinda vibe. At least, that's what was going on in my head!!!

I did some boxing a few years ago, and would sometimes hang back to watch the MMA guys. There are so many people out there who could literally kill someone with a single punch. You don't want to catch them on a bad day. The prisons and hospitals (and morgues) are full of men whose pride got them into a fight. I think I'd have come away with more than a few bruises. Jesus, the rage was unbelievable. It's frightening just how much anger and hate some people carry.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by GirlAfraid

I avoid confrontation at all costs, which sometimes causes a lot of problems. A feeling comes over me when I sense a situation is becoming tense, or someone is angry. It's almost like I wear a mask of boredom - pretending to be very placid and calm, when actually I'm terrified and planning my escape.

The best thing is to be both calm and assertive. Don't raise your voice, or lean into them, or anything like that. But don't back down or avoid eye contact either. People kick off when you become aggressive, but, weirdly, being too meek and passive can also set them off. There's probably some kind of evolutionary explanation (going for the runt, or the wounded?). If you watch debt collectors on TV, they never raise their voice. But they don't allow the client to intimidate them either.

[AnxiousExtrovert]

^ I think what youre talking about is not as widespread deep down in peoples minds as it sometimes seems.

To me what seems to create all the pettiness regarding not just physical confrontation but any type whether it be verbal or passive aggressive is that people are concerned by the stereotype or perception of not sticking up for yourself. Or low self esteem and wanting some control in their lives.

As everyone on this thread has put, it is obviously stupid on many levels to be confronting as either the aggressor or defender on most of these situations. As tonkin mentioned it really is a lose lose situation a lot of the time. If you want to lead a normal life then a confrontation over something silly can have you on the end of some mental unstableness whether win or lose. As the loser you can end up with a whole heap of other issues, As the winner you can often still have an unwanted spotlight on you for various reasons.

But peer pressure or the perception of how others see you, or even the perception of dealing with it acceptably or normally is what spurs people to act against their better judgement or whats really reasonable. Thats why their is a stigma with overly aggressive people really having low self esteem. Its not always the case but I believe thats where the link comes from.

If everyone on here was replying to moksha that he needed to not let anyone treat him like that, or stand up and do this it would be hard for anyone to not dwell on that and react the next time. And it's that kind of advice or perception people do believe which is why so much of it goes on. And I think thats a voice inside a lot of people which has either come from being around haters, or armchair experts, or just low self esteem. Its understandably a very powerful feeling to have some control of others not pushing you around or disrespecting you. But there seems to be some delusional and illogical thinking behind how people obtain that and the limits.

There are times to stand up for yourself, but those times have become distorted if every slight has to be addressed.

[anxiouslondoner]

@No Longer Human

Speaking of Sid Vicious, did you know he was named after a hamster?
Not particularly relevant to this discussion but I thought it was funny anyway.
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/sex-pis...-got-his-name/

[AnxiousExtrovert]

Originally Posted by Tonkin

I find it very hard to know if the person being confrontational is doing it because they know they're a double hard bastard, or they aren't hard but are counting on no one daring to stand up to them. So with that in mind, it's better to walk away as you never know what you're getting into.

There's a hell of a lot of chancers doing exactly that and hoping no one stands up to them. With a sizeable amount delusional too. Some people are addicted to trying to get an edge on people regardless of substance.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by anxiouslondoner

@No Longer Human

Speaking of Sid Vicious, did you know he was named after a hamster?
Not particularly relevant to this discussion but I thought it was funny anyway.
]

Apparently, when Freddie Mercury was introduced to him, he said “ah, Sidney Ferocious, delighted to meet you.”

[Introspheric87]

I don't know to handle confrontation well. I always try to avoid it where I can. I once had a situation with a courier delaying delivering to my address. After the three day window was up I contacted the seller to find out what was going on. They promised to rearrange delivery. The next time the courier still didn't deliver over the next three day window even though I was in all day. I called the buyer again asking what was going on. They said they will contact the area manager. About 30 minutes later, I get a knock on the door. I open it and there is the courier. He comes to the doorway and says that I need to make sure I'm in before I start telling lies to his manager. I told him I didn't speak to his manager and only asked where my parcel is. The courier stayed in the doorway with my package in his arms and repeated that I needed to make sure I'm in before I start telling lies to his manager. I repeated that I asked where my parcel was. He repeated that I needed to make sure I was in before I lied to his manager. Seeing that he was getting more aggressive I said that I was no longer interested in the delivery and informed him that I would be closing my door. I tried to close my door and he shoved back the door into me hurting my knee then dropped the parcel on the floor. I let the seller know what happened and they promised to talk to the area manager. Since then the courier has refused to deliver any packages to my address.
I was in shock as you wouldn't expect this kind of behaviour from a courier and then to report it and still not be believed. Its gone on for two years now and contacting the courier company directly doesn't help. Problem is during lockdown so many companies use the same courier and very few are willing to use a different supplier when you contact them. My social anxiety makes me feel useless, like the reason the courier got away with his behaviour was because he saw me as a soft touch and that this wouldn't have happened to a stronger person.

[Tembo]

^ That situation sounds ridiculous! Not your response at all, but the behaviour of the courier and the company! These courier companies display some of the worst customer service I’ve ever seen, especially Herpes or Hermes whatever it’s called (although there’s also been some really friendly couriers of course).
I suppose the courier got aggressive because their managers often sound ruthless, uncaring, and these drivers are put under so much stress from management. But that’s no reason to take it out on you and make you feel intimidated!
It also sounds like a right inconvenience for you that they refuse to deliver now!
Sounds like you did what any customer should do, so try not to take it personally, they seem to be generally rubbish companies!

[Tonkin]

What happens if you order something and they refuse to deliver it? Where does the package end up? Couldn't you complain to Amazon or whoever you ordered it from and get them to chase it up?

[Introspheric87]

Originally Posted by Tembo

^ That situation sounds ridiculous! Not your response at all, but the behaviour of the courier and the company! These courier companies display some of the worst customer service I’ve ever seen, especially Herpes or Hermes whatever it’s called (although there’s also been some really friendly couriers of course).
I suppose the courier got aggressive because their managers often sound ruthless, uncaring, and these drivers are put under so much stress from management. But that’s no reason to take it out on you and make you feel intimidated!
It also sounds like a right inconvenience for you that they refuse to deliver now!
Sounds like you did what any customer should do, so try not to take it personally, they seem to be generally rubbish companies!

Thank you, I now try to check with the seller to see who they deliver to before ordering. its gone on for two years now, so I may have missed my boat in getting actions taken.