"Disability payments should go to 'really disabled' - not those who suffer anxiety."

[wjfox]

No 10 policy head George Freeman says disability payments should go to the 'really disabled'- not those who suffer from anxiety

26 FEBRUARY 2017 ***8226; 6:45PM

The head of Theresa May's policy unit has claimed disability benefits should go to "really disabled people" rather than those who are "taking pills at home, who suffer from anxiety".

George Freeman said it was right to introduce reforms to personal independence payments (PIP), a benefit intended to help people of working age with some of the extra costs caused by a disability.

Critics argue that the changes will will reduce the number of people eligible to claim by 160,000 and cut £3.7bn from the benefits bill over the next five years.

Mr Freemman said the "tweaks" to the system were needed to roll back a "bizarre" ruling that claimants with psychological problems, who are unable to travel without help, should be treated in a similar way to those who are blind.

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...yments-should/

[wjfox]

This government seems to take an almost sadistic delight in making people suffer.

[Dougella]

^ I think that they do. They decided to move the goalposts so that people can't access the help that they'd been judged as being entitled to.

[Mo34]

Yes The government is trying to overturn a decision made by judges unfortunately. Basically a 'were going to do what we like anyway attitude'.

From benefits and work website:

Following a court victory by claimants just last month, the government is rushing in an urgent change to the law to prevent many people with mental health conditions being awarded the mobility component of personal independence payment (PIP).

The change reverses the recent ruling by a panel of three judges and means that people with mental health conditions such as severe anxiety who can go outdoors, even if they need to have someone with them, are much less likely to get an award of even the standard rate of the PIP mobility component.

Panel of upper tribunal judges
As we explained just a few weeks ago, for years we***8217;ve been advising members that DWP guidance about ***8216;Planning and following a journey***8217; was wrong and was leading to incorrect assessments by health professionals and errors of law by decision makers.

The disagreement over interpretation was finally decided by a panel of three upper tribunal judges last month

The DWP continued to argue that anyone with a mental health condition who was ever able to go outdoors, even with someone with them, should score only 4 points and receive no award at all on that basis.

But the tribunal held that claimants with conditions such as severe anxiety can qualify even for the enhanced rate of the mobility component, just on the basis of problems with ***8216;Planning and following a journey***8217;, or ***8216;Going out***8217; as the PIP form terms it.

New regulations
Rather than try to fight the case any further, the government have resorted to a change in the regulations, which doesn***8217;t require any kind of debate or vote in parliament.

From 16 March the law will be changed so that the words ***8220;For reasons other than psychological distress***8221; will be added to the start of descriptors c, d and f in relation to ***8220;Planning and following journeys***8221;.

Current descriptors
The descriptors currently read:

a. Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. 0 points.

b. Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.

c. Cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.

d. Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.

e. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points.

f. Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.

New descriptors
The new descriptors will read (changes in bold by us):

a. Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. 0 points.

b. Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.

c. For reasons other than psychological distress, cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.

d. For reasons other than psychological distress, cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.

e. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points.

f. For reasons other than psychological distress, cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.

The effect will be that people who are too anxious to ever undertake journeys unless they have someone with them, for example because they have panic attacks or similar, will be unlikely to be awarded more than 4 points by the DWP. This means they will not be able to get an award of the mobility component on the basis of this activity alone.

Even claimants who are too anxious to ever go on journeys, even if they have someone with them, will only score 10 points and thus not be eligible for the enhanced rate of the mobility component on the basis of this activity alone.

Ruthless
The new regulations also make changes to the way that descriptors relating to taking medication are interpreted, again in response to a ruling by judges in favour of claimants.

The new regulations are being rushed in without the Social Security Advisory Committee even being given a chance to comment on them.

Penny Mordaunt, the minister for disabled people, claimed in a statement today that

***8220;Two recent Upper Tribunal judgments have broadened the way the PIP assessment criteria should be interpreted, going beyond the original intention. In order to make sure the initial purpose of PIP is maintained, we are making drafting amendments to the criteria which provide greater clarity. This will not result in any claimants seeing a reduction in the amount of PIP previously awarded by DWP. . . If not urgently addressed, the operational complexities could undermine the consistency of assessments, leading to confusion for all those using the legislation, including claimants, assessors, and the courts. It is because of the urgency caused by these challenges, and the implications on public expenditure, that proposals for these amendments have not been referred to the Social Security Advisory Committee before making the regulations.***8221;

In reality, the new regulations are a ruthless response to fair and reasonable judgements and their only purpose is to cut the cost of disability benefits, regardless of the effect on the lives of individuals.

The new regulations will not apply to decisions made before 16 March. However, it is possible that decision makers will delay making decisions on claims likely to be covered by the new regulations until after that date.

[.Andrew.]

Just someone that doesn't understand how disabling an anxiety disorder can be.

There will be people with physical disabilities or even in wheelchairs that have a better quality of life than people with severe anxiety disorders.

[Dougella]

^^ They clearly think psychological distress isn't something that should be taken into account

[Hayman]

It doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum you sit – we have never seen a government on either side of the house that has taken Anxiety or Depression seriously. This is why I think it’s pointless in seeking professional help.

You see, those without any problems or had them in the past are the ones who judge us. They've never been in our shoes and therefore I find it ironic that they think they know the best course of action for the person who’s actually suffering. No one listens to the points made by the sufferer as the non-sufferer deems us 'incorrect'. They judge us by something they've only read about in textbooks, rather than judging us following on from their own personal difficulties of a similar nature.

This is what is so utterly wrong with the current system. Our reasons are not listened to and our explanations are laughed off. We’re basically heading into the lion's den every time we seek help. Yet, some of them deem it's it's US with an attitude problem… Umm... I don't think so.

People laugh at me when many of us suggest that if you have an illness that can’t be seen, it’s treated as if it's not there. However, here is a classic example of the utter contempt we have to deal with on a daily basis.

Is it any wonder why we are the way we are…?

[firemonkey]

George Freeman deserves a good kicking in the head followed by hours of torture.

[firemonkey]

Tory MP Heidi Allen Tells Government Not To Cut Mental Health Disability Payments


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...ef=uk-politics

[Dougella]

^^ I think he needs to resign his position, he's clearly not suitable or capable!

^ It is rather ironic that they're doing this after all the fanfare they made about mental health.

[Quicksand]

Now I understand Dad's facial response when I told him was applying for PIP. I wonder if i've got in in time my assessment being this week.

[Merritt]

This is awkward for me because I constantly worry about not deserving benefits and being thought of as someone gaming the system, despite going through all the assessment processes and being reassured by people that I'm entitled. If this becomes the popular narrative, that anxiety and depression and the like aren't really disabilities, I can foresee a mountain of guilt, paranoia and general feeling crapness in my future.

[Mo34]

^
I'm exactly the same.
My counsellor although wants to see me off benefits and into employment, constantly has to remind me that I am entitled and there are very good reasons for my claiming them.
I'm always somewhat paranoid about telling ppl i'm on benefits but in particular that I get DLA.

[Merritt]

^ Yeah, I feel a bit detached from 'normal' people because I always assume I'll be thought badly of if they knew I'm on benefits (and the amount I get)

My support worker (in fact, every support worker I've had for years) has defended my right to what I get, and talked me out of voluntarily coming off PIP, but even with them I still treat it as a mark of shame.

[Hayman]

Originally Posted by Dougella

^ It is rather ironic that they're doing this after all the fanfare they made about mental health.

Indeed. There's supposed to be more understanding and more respect for those with mental health issues and once again, we clearly see the contempt that's shown for the subject. Especially where depression and anxiety is concerned.

As I've said on other forums, I do honestly believe that both issues remain very much misunderstood. Hence why there are people out there, such as myself, who either won't come forward or have come forward and grown so frustrated with the lack of understanding that they no longer bother seeking so-called 'help'.

[Dougella]

^ Ah, thank you.

[Ronnie_Pickering]

Originally Posted by Merritt

^ Yeah, I feel a bit detached from 'normal' people because I always assume I'll be thought badly of if they knew I'm on benefits (and the amount I get)

My support worker (in fact, every support worker I've had for years) has defended my right to what I get, and talked me out of voluntarily coming off PIP, but even with them I still treat it as a mark of shame.

can you do voluntary work, or part- time work? Only reason I'm saying is you do yourself a disservice. I have intermittent working because of MH, but I'm now working with 4 friendly guys that being stuck at home I wouldn't have. I would say don't give up aspiring to work.

[Dougella]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7600151.html

£3.7bn cut in disability benefits needed to help cut the deficit, says cabinet minister (Patrick McLoughlin)

"Patrick McLoughlin said ministers had to view the funding, which would go to people with conditions including epilepsy, diabetes and dementia, in the context of a wider need to reduce the UK's budget deficit."

So we're back to using the excuse of reducing the deficit are we, not heard that one for a while!

[Angelina]

This topic makes my blood boil. I personally don't claim anything but People with mental health problems have died due to cutbacks by these morons by taking people's disability off them. Basically they like to play god with people's lives when they don't have a clue what they have to go through on a daily basis. Won't say anymore because it makes me want to commit murder!

[Dougella]

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ppeals-process

"One 'not really disabled' man has won against the system. I'm not celebrating."

"John had to fight for months to get his benefits restored. Most, though, can't face the struggle of the appeals process."

[SpaceMonkey]

Think of all the people who just won't bother to appeal, or even apply, for these benefits when they hear of all the horror stories like that. It's exactly what the government wants of course.

I sometimes wonder if many politicians have a serious personality disorder. The lack of empathy is outstanding.

[David K]

^ Yeah I delayed applying for months because it's all so scary and humiliating. I'm lucky that my family could support me in the meantime, but it wasn't fair on them and I feel guilty about it.

I don't think ascribing their actions to mental illness is a good way to look at it though. It's unfair on people with mental illnesses, and it lets the politicians off the hook for being complete arseholes.

[ConverseCody]

^ Totally agree about the lack of empathy amongst politicians. Its ridiculous

[Dougella]

^ I think it is a lack of empathy too and a lack of knowledge and what seems to be an unwillingness to actually gain the knowledge to do their jobs properly. In some cases though I think that they are genuinely evil (Ian Duncan Smith).

[FraidyCat]

Originally Posted by jinny

I don't think the term 'mental illness' is at all helpful to society anymore. Ill is ill.

That is true. But sadly its easy to fake and claim mental illness. Some people are greedy and will lie and abuse the system.

There is only limited pot of money and these people spoil it for those in genuine need.

[David K]

Originally Posted by FraidyCat

That is true. But sadly its easy to fake and claim mental illness. Some people are greedy and will lie and abuse the system.

There is only limited pot of money and these people spoil it for those in genuine need.

The money is shit. If I was greedy and healthy I would get a job.

[Dougella]

^^ The numbers of false benefit claims are very very low. But as I've said before I really don't care if a few people want to go to the trouble of faking an illness for the tiny amount of benefit money they get, once they've jumped through all the hoops of form filling and assessments, if it means that people who are genuinely ill or disabled get the help they need without stress and pressure that will make their health even worse.

The government should be going after people who don't pay their taxes, which is a far larger amount in money terms, and leave the most vulnerable people in society alone.

[Quicksand]

[QUOTE=jinny;2289666]when are people going to stop making a distinction between mental & physical illnesses?

well said jinny. my dad walked thru the town with me late summer to my gp appoint. he clearly had physical and I had mental anxiety being out. he is going to get more of the social crap being out and about in his wheelchair.

I guess this is why GPs dish out the meds. sigh.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by FraidyCat

That is true. But sadly its easy to fake and claim mental illness. Some people are greedy and will lie and abuse the system.

There is only limited pot of money and these people spoil it for those in genuine need.

It's just as easy to fake physical illness too. A small (very small) minority of people will always look to cheat the system. Does that mean you end the system for every one?

[firemonkey]

@FraidyCat do you have any statistics as to how many benefit claimants fake MI, or is this just pro Tory misinformation/propaganda ?