Are there any upsides to being an introvert?

[blancmange]

^ I can really relate to this. I would love to have friends but I'm so socially inept that I can't even talk to people or put myself in a situation to meet people.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by limey123

I feel sorry for extroverts, being largely dependent, as they are, on other people for their happiness.

One thing I do find strange is how guilty we often feel for being introverts. Why do I feel ashamed of it? Why am I ashamed of the fact that I can walk along the beach on my own, or browse though a bookshop, and be perfectly happy? I suspect it's because the extroverts need people. And they resent introverts for not needing them. Introverts literally scare them. After all, if the majority of us were introverts, the extroverts would go crazy. And because introverts scare them, they tend to ridicule and attack them (and being extroverts, they shout much louder and command more attention).

I was listening to a podcast on loneliness the other night. Someone made a very good point, one I hadn't considered before. They said that, though loneliness is very common, most won't admit to it. And they won't admit to it because it's shameful. I guess that goes back to school/adolescence. Remember the way kids used to say things like "haha...no mates", etc? How they used to ridicule and tease anyone who seemed to have no friends? It can take a long time to shake off those adolescent fears and insecurities. You get in this defensive habit, pretending to have more friends, more fun, more sex etc than you really are. When you then become an adult, it can be hard break that habit and admit "you know what, I'm lonely." Or "you know what, I don't have any friends - and I don't really want any."

How many people on here don't want any friends? Personally, I would like a handful of good friends - people I could chat to about books, etc. But I certainly don't want a wide circle of casual friends, or to get to know my neighbors better (I can't stand most of them).

[lone*star]

Originally Posted by Moksha

How many people on here don't want any friends?

I suspect there's a strong (but subtle and little recognized) link between 'being a person' and 'wanting friends'. So yes, of course a person wants friends. A person needs friends! A person is the very separation of humanity into tiny individual fragments; each looking to regain the original wholeness that has been lost in the process of becoming separate!

If we manage to survive long enough as a race (which seems unlikely) future generations will look back in history at us, living now, and laugh to themselves: "People actually thought that they were separate entities; in competition with each other; all fighting their own little corner in life. They didn't realise that they had to work together, both with themselves and with nature as a whole, in order to succeed."

[limey123]

Originally Posted by lone*star

A person is the very separation of humanity into tiny individual fragments; each looking to regain the original wholeness that has been lost in the process of becoming separate!

I agree entirely. I believe that ultimately we are all part of a single entity, and our ultimate destiny and impetus is to arrive back at that one-ness.

If only more of our great religions had been about our collective soul rather than the concept of individual salvation. I really like your idea of working together, lone*star.

[Orwell20]

Originally Posted by lone*star

I suspect there's a strong (but subtle and little recognized) link between 'being a person' and 'wanting friends'. So yes, of course a person wants friends. A person needs friends!

I always feel I should want friends more than I do. Sometimes, I wonder if I'm lying to myself when I say I don't really want any. Or maybe I've just got so used to being on my own? The honest truth is I never craved company, even when I was a child.

[lone*star]

^ Maybe you're not limited to being merely a person?

I also have very little interest in other people socially, but then I don't take myself to be a person only. You see, the interesting thing about being a person, is that it is ultimately your choice! Most people think that you're simply born into being a person, and that's that. But being a person is actually a limitation of consciousness - and you don't have to remain bound within that limitation if you don't wish to. What you are ultimately is totally free, unbound and without limitation - which means it can be what ever it wants - or not be anything at all! Being a person has its good points, but I don't think I'd want to be stuck as one permanently.

[choirgirl]

My problem is I find other people annoying. Sooner or later. Unless I can socialise in a controlled way - like online, or in a situation where I can go home when I want. That's why I've been obsessed with getting my own place for 20 years.

[Raven.]

Originally Posted by choirgirl

...Unless I can socialise in a controlled way - like online, or in a situation where I can go home when I want.

I can relate to this.
When I had my dogs, I used them as my 'get out' clause. I would leave a social situation that was getting a wee bit too much with the phrase " sorry, got to go and let my dogs out".
Given that everyone now knows my dogs have died, using that excuse has much less impact! I think I'll have to get another dog soon just to get me out of staff nights out.

[Jude99]

As Mary J. Blige sang... No Drama. Extroverts are always full of drama, always something going on. They get depressed if they are left alone. Being an introvert, you don't have to put up with any of that also, introverts tend to be rational thinkers. Where would the world be without us.

[Laurel]

https://www.quietrev.com/my-father-t...campaign=qr+tw

[hollowone]

There's a lot of confusion about introvert & shy/socially-anxious.

Introvert describes a preference for fewer but deeper friendships, but not minding no social contact when you have that. Extroverted generally means a greater preference for social contact.

There are shy and socially-anxious introverts, there are shy/socially-anxious extroverts. There are confident extroverts, there are confident introverts. People often use the word 'introvert' as a synonym for 'shy'.

I see some of the discussion lately has been along the lines of 'is there something wrong with me because I don't want friends as much as others'. It's OK not to want tons of friends, one or two good ones is what some people are perfectly happy with, that's totally normal and fine. It's important to differentiate natural PREFERENCES from social hindrances like shyness & social anxiety.

Anyway, as for the OP, there are upsides to being shy & having struggled with SA, in that if you've experienced it, when you do become more confident you'll be able to leak little bits of empathy and maybe even more positive than the average person.

[hollowone]

Helloa

RE

It annoys me when I'm out hiking with a more extroverted person and they're just chatting shite along the way rather than experiencing the moment.

Totally get that, I know those sorts of people who feel they need to talk constantly, to a degree I've been a bit like that. You can read the assumption 'if I'm quiet they'll think I'm weird' erm, not at all, maybe if you keep talking when people want their space that might not work in your favour.

People often feel they have to come across as 'extraverted', 'talkative' and 'interesting' because they've absorbed the message that being 'quiet' is 'bad'. I'm sure we've all had moments where we've felt 'yikes, I'm being quiet, not saying anything, they'll think I'm boring'.

As for what has been said, the caring about what people think note has come up. It's definitely true, that the more we learn not to care, the less scared we feel about being judged negatively. The 'what' bit (they'll think I'm weird), and the 'why' bit; what it means to me. This is a really important point.

[Moksha]

I have a friend who is a pure, textbook extrovert. Tuesday evening he phoned and asked if I wanted to go for a coffee. He now works from home and is going crazy from the isolation. So I picked him up about 7:00pm and we went to McDonalds. He didn't want anything in particular, and hadn't much news, he just craved company. When he is near other people, he seems to gain energy and come alive. Being around people is like plugging him into the mains. Anyway, he showed me some photos of him on a stag do with about 20 other guys, all grinning and laddish, who had booked a weekend in Prague. Then he was telling me about some big get together with his wife's family. What really struck me, as it always does, is how much easier life is when you're an extrovert. Of course, he is also incredibly confident and assertive, which helps (presumably you can have a shy, insecure extrovert ). He never agonizes over what happened, over the stupid things he said or the awkward silences. Neither does he worry whether the people there liked him. And instead of dreading such things for weeks in advance (as I would) he barely thinks about them at all.

But it isn't just his extroverted nature that amazes me. We are polar opposites in so many ways: he's an extrovert, I'm an introvert; he likes everyone he meets and barely distinguishes one person from another (I swear he'd have liked Jimmy Saville), I'm hyper- sensitive to different personalities, never miss a thing, and dislike more people than I like; he is high-energy and happy, I'm low energy and melancholic; he is optimistic and looks for things to be excited about, I'm pessimistic to the point of paranoia. I can think of several people who have ZERO self-awareness and absolutely ZERO social anxiety. They astonish me, not because they are chatty and confident but because they are just so ****ing comfortable and relaxed when around others. In fact, these differences between people have amazed me all my life; some are so different it's like comparing a giraffe to a crocodile. And I don't care what anyone says, those differences lie in the genes.

[Pub Jo]

Rare invites to parties talking aimless sh#t to people you really dont know

[Genetically_Inferior]

Originally Posted by Moksha

I have a friend who is a pure, textbook extrovert. Tuesday evening he phoned and asked if I wanted to go for a coffee. He now works from home and is going crazy from the isolation. So I picked him up about 7:00pm and we went to McDonalds. He didn't want anything in particular, and hadn't much news, he just craved company. When he is near other people, he seems to gain energy and come alive. Being around people is like plugging him into the mains. Anyway, he showed me some photos of him on a stag do with about 20 other guys, all grinning and laddish, who had booked a weekend in Prague. Then he was telling me about some big get together with his wife's family. What really struck me, as it always does, is how much easier life is when you're an extrovert. Of course, he is also incredibly confident and assertive, which helps (presumably you can have a shy, insecure extrovert ). He never agonizes over what happened, over the stupid things he said or the awkward silences. Neither does he worry whether the people there liked him. And instead of dreading such things for weeks in advance (as I would) he barely thinks about them at all.

But it isn't just his extroverted nature that amazes me. We are polar opposites in so many ways: he's an extrovert, I'm an introvert; he likes everyone he meets and barely distinguishes one person from another (I swear he'd have liked Jimmy Saville), I'm hyper- sensitive to different personalities, never miss a thing, and dislike more people than I like; he is high-energy and happy, I'm low energy and melancholic; he is optimistic and looks for things to be excited about, I'm pessimistic to the point of paranoia. I can think of several people who have ZERO self-awareness and absolutely ZERO social anxiety. They astonish me, not because they are chatty and confident but because they are just so ****ing comfortable and relaxed when around others. In fact, these differences between people have amazed me all my life; some are so different it's like comparing a giraffe to a crocodile. And I don't care what anyone says, those differences lie in the genes.

It's all genetics plus very early childhood experiences in the age range from 3 to 6 years.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Genetically_Inferior

It's all genetics plus very early childhood experiences in the age range from 3 to 6 years.

Yeah, that's the conclusion I've come to as well. You don't inherit a social anxiety disorder, but you do inherit certain traits that make SA likely: introversion, hyper-sensitivity to the presence of other people, etc. The friend I mentioned brought his kids over yesterday. He has two, aged about five and seven. It was fascinating to watch them. My friend is supernaturally confident, a total extrovert without a shred of SA. His wife is also a very confident person with lots of friends. The children have clearly inherited this. I hadn't seen them for ages, so I was in effect a complete stranger - a big man with a deep voice in a strange house. Most of the people on this forum would have been intimidated at that age. But the eldest, who is seven or eight (I think), just walked straight in and made herself at home. She wasn't loud or cocky, merely confident and at ease. I guess you could argue that she's learnt to be that way, from observing her parents and being intensely socialized (taken to the pub, taken to parties, etc), but my gut feeling is she inherited it. There was a lack of fear, a lack of self-awareness and sensitivity. She was comfortable, that's the best way I can put it.

When you think about it, so much of life is beyond our control. I guess we have a certain amount of free will, but not much. Genes alone form the basics, or the background, of our personality. When you add in parenting, plus early experiences (being an only child, growing up in a small, isolated family, etc), and combine it with genetics, well, it can take a lifetime to deal with the fallout.

[hollowone]

@ moksha

The friend you described is definnitely an extrovert, an important point you brought up was (hope you don't mind me quoting) "He never agonizes over what happened, over the stupid things he said or the awkward silences. Neither does he worry whether the people there liked him. And instead of dreading such things for weeks in advance (as I would) he barely thinks about them at all." This is a really interesting point & rings bells.

You can get people who seem outwardly very confident and people who are shy who're like that, you can get people who're outwardly shy and outwardly confident who're not like that at all.

What you've described definitely describes me.

Regards the original topic, I think the keyword here is self-awareness; introverts may have the advantage of gaining higher self-awareness than people who're extroverts.

That point RE zero self-awareness and zero social anxiety regarding, that's what strikes a chord with me. I've noticed the same thing too. I get it can be difficult to not get out your head (like those lucky bastards). but it means you're more at risk of becoming socially-anxious.

There's a difference between not being sure about how to navigate social situations and your natural personality and temperament.

RE the note of social experience
It's also important not to confuse the introverted tendency to analyse a lot with having a lot of social anxiety (though I will say being introverted is a risk factor for social anxiety). Not knowing how to mingle at parties for e.g. here's a metaphor; imagine giving two people a guitar, letting them learn a tune for half an hour, then taking away the guitar for 6 months then expecting a virtuoso performance. Whether they're introverted or extroverted, they'll both be equally rubbish & unsure of what to do. It's the same with social inexperience.

[lecha]

I sometimes have the impression that extroverted people can't really appreciate the silence and the beauty of nature around us. Like really be glad to see the colours, beautiful leaves, even all the nice objects that we are lucky to buy for ourselves.

[lecha]

Originally Posted by Moksha

A therapist once said to me "you seem to have a very rich inner life," which is true. I can sit for hours lost in my own thoughts. And when I'm in a good mood, that inner world can be a rich and happy place. I have literally walked four miles home immersed in fantasies and daydreams and hardly aware of the time or distance.

I'm like this, too, but I have the problem that if my train of thought is bad, then there's noone there to show me a different perspective. Do you have some method to 'snap out of it' when you are not in the happy place? I did a lot of therapy before, too, but it didnt help with this..

[lecha]

Originally Posted by HermannHesse

No. No upsides. Not if you're also at least two of the following:

Ugly
Male
Talentless.

Upsides only exist for those who fall out of those categories.

The only upside for those who get the home run is being able to fulfil their Xmas obligations for under £10.

Hey, you are cheating!
Since you are male you get to have no upside with just one other category!
Be well x

[R.H.I.N.O.]

I hate it if i'm honest. I was very socially anxious as a young man, but mainly overcame that as i got older. Introversion on the other hand, is something i will have to live with for the rest of my life. I like to be alone but crave company and companionship. Think it was Stephen Fry who said " I don't want to be alone, just left alone". That sums me up really and i crave a relationship with a fellow introvert. Where do i find her though? I'm in my late 50's now and can see nothing but loneliness and frustration in my future.

[Genetically_Inferior]

Originally Posted by Moksha

I have a friend who is a pure, textbook extrovert. Tuesday evening he phoned and asked if I wanted to go for a coffee. He now works from home and is going crazy from the isolation. So I picked him up about 7:00pm and we went to McDonalds. He didn't want anything in particular, and hadn't much news, he just craved company. When he is near other people, he seems to gain energy and come alive. Being around people is like plugging him into the mains. Anyway, he showed me some photos of him on a stag do with about 20 other guys, all grinning and laddish, who had booked a weekend in Prague. Then he was telling me about some big get together with his wife's family. What really struck me, as it always does, is how much easier life is when you're an extrovert. Of course, he is also incredibly confident and assertive, which helps (presumably you can have a shy, insecure extrovert ). He never agonizes over what happened, over the stupid things he said or the awkward silences. Neither does he worry whether the people there liked him. And instead of dreading such things for weeks in advance (as I would) he barely thinks about them at all.

But it isn't just his extroverted nature that amazes me. We are polar opposites in so many ways: he's an extrovert, I'm an introvert; he likes everyone he meets and barely distinguishes one person from another (I swear he'd have liked Jimmy Saville), I'm hyper- sensitive to different personalities, never miss a thing, and dislike more people than I like; he is high-energy and happy, I'm low energy and melancholic; he is optimistic and looks for things to be excited about, I'm pessimistic to the point of paranoia. I can think of several people who have ZERO self-awareness and absolutely ZERO social anxiety. They astonish me, not because they are chatty and confident but because they are just so ****ing comfortable and relaxed when around others. In fact, these differences between people have amazed me all my life; some are so different it's like comparing a giraffe to a crocodile. And I don't care what anyone says, those differences lie in the genes.

I couldn't agree more with you for saying that for extroverts life is 10 times easier. In my humble opinion, there are no upsides to being an introvert. The most important personality trait in this contemporary society is communication. For us, introverts, it doesn't come natural so we're screwed for the rest of our life. Introverts they just don't fit into social norms that are designed for extroverts to thrive. On importance scale this is how the personality traits are ranked:

1. Communication (extrovert trait)
2. Charisma (extrovert trait)
3. Being outgoing (extrovert trait)


















Massive gap

4. Some introverted traits that nobody cares about

I just don't see how this is going to change. It'll never change. We're gonna die in society like this.

[limey123]

Originally Posted by Genetically_Inferior

1. Communication (extrovert trait)
2. Charisma (extrovert trait)
3. Being outgoing (extrovert trait)

Along with self-promotion, these are exactly the traits that are currently, and have been for some time, praised and encouraged in American society (think of books like How to Win Friends and Influence People, and echoed in the book Quiet by Susan Cain) and which are also being pushed over here and elsewhere in the world now.