Psilocybin Found To Rapidly Improve Depressive Symptoms

[SpectralOwls]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willyak...h=427c8c2a778a

If 36.7% of patients experiencing a 50% or more reduction in symptoms doesn’t sound like a big deal, it nevertheless is. Charles Duncan, an analyst at Cantor Fitzgerald who covers Compass Pathways, says finding a therapeutic that helps patients with TRD is particularly difficult considering that these patients have tried many different drugs without success.

“I would call the results groundbreaking,” says Duncan. “If you look at the data, it is obvious that this drug is working.”

Duncan also says an important thing to understand is how impressive the results are is to realize how different psilocybin-assisted therapy is compared with other mental health interventions for TRD patients. Most treatments require chronic, daily pills that have limited efficacy.

“It’s a novel paradigm because it’s one-time dosing of a drug combined with therapy that might treat a highly burdened patient population. It exceeds expectations,” says Duncan. “When you think about it, any effect size you’re seeing here needs to be considered against a chronic daily dosing of a not-effective paradigm versus a one-time treatment.”

I thought I'd post it up here. The interesting thing is that my state actually legalized this last year (it was also something I voted for)! It's touted as being useful for anxiety and depression. I haven't heard anything on a more personal level about it, but I'm very interested to see how it goes.

[Dougella]

It is very interesting that these substances can be used medically to help with anxiety and depression.


"David Doel's severe anxiety and how psychedelics helped."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3YORMZAIybg&t=29s

[Ben]

Stuff like this, "hard core" drugs found useful for depression etc a topic I am interested in. Ketamine has been available a while in the UK and is something I may have a go with

[Tonkin]

Anyone tried this yet (in a clinical setting)?

It seems like some other countries are a bit ahead of us with this

https://ravarora.substack.com/p/a-ps...ough-in-canada

[choirgirl]

Sounds interesting they're doing actual trials.

[Mr. Nobody]

Saw THIS article today on BBC news on the same subject,
I used to take mushrooms, and I often felt it definitely had the potential to put you in a very good place mood-wise,
Often lasting several months thereafter,
but I'm thinking it would need to be under controlled circumstances, as it could sometimes not quite pan-out as you'd hoped.

[Dougella]

^ Yes, I've heard that it can be good but not necessarily enjoyable and quite emotionally tiring! Probably best done with professional support in a controlled setting.

[Spideysenses]

I know what it feels like to be pushed into believing that I do not have options and taking a risk is better than to keep suffering. However I am very sceptical about ketamine and psilocybin even when it is taken under controlled conditions at low doses in a medical setting. The idea of "resetting the brain" and "shaking up the neural pathways" may seem plausible. I'm not so sure. It sounds like a quick fix crash course fallacy. Depression takes years and years to unravel and work through. Changing and adjusting of medications for short or longer term. Combining therapies that suit a person. I do not believe that one course of these drugs can "cure" treatment resistant depression. A hallucinogenic drug for ptsd? What is needed is improved psychiatric medicines and more psychiatrists and psychologists available to all.

[Dougella]

^^ I don't agree that depression is a natural part of being human. Sadness, grief and loneliness etc can be but depression is the disorder that results when like you say these things become intrenched and the circumstances someone finds themselves in are unhealthy, damaging, abusive etc.

[Dougella]

^ I really don't think it is. Negative feelings and emotions are part of being human but the state of depression where people feel numb, where they no longer get any enjoyment out of things, where they have frequent suicidal thoughts - that is not natural and also isn't something that people should have to suffer with long term.

[biscuits]

Feelings are feelings rather than being negative or positive. Seeing certain feelings as negative makes us think we shouldn't feel that way. It can lead to people bottling up their feelings or feeling ashamed, or like there is something wrong with feeling that way.

It's not really that much of a wild statement to say that depression is a normal and natural part of being a human e.g. it wouldn't be correct to say that it's abnormal or unnatural. One in five people experience suicidal thoughts. One in six people seek help for depression each week. And not everyone seeks help or feels deserving of help, so it's probably higher than that.

I don't actually know anyone who hasn't experienced depression. Depression is a natural response to life's continued stressors. It can also be a genetic disposition.

[Dougella]

^ what description can be given to sadness or grief then?

Also feeling depressed is different from struggling with clinical depression. The prevelence of depression as a disorder among the population doesn't necessarily mean it's natural, it shows how unnatural a lot of our living conditions are!

[Dougella]

^ Is that the clinical definition?

When some people are suffering with clinical depression they most certainly can not function as normal, that's part of the point. For some people medication combined with therapy really helps that. Not to mention the presence of suicidal thoughts and ideation leading to attempts is definitely something that people won't survive without appropriate help and treatment. It can be extremely serious, and ofcourse some people are hospitalised with depression.

[Dougella]

^ It's definitely not the only criteria for a diagnosis of clinical depression. No-one would be diagnosed with depression on that alone.

[Mr. Nobody]

I'd imagine that medication is only a part of treatment, possibly a small part?
I think the lifestyle and general outlook of the person plays a huge part?

It's a bit like taking painkillers for a bad back,
The painkillers are really only to help you get moving again, and that's what cures the bad back, the movement.
So, taking anti-depressants is really only to get you to the point of being able to get out and live a fuller more inclusive lifestyle,
But if you are only taking them to augment a depressive lifestyle and make it more bearable, then it's never going to work out.

I think we have lived or evolved a certain lifestyle and outlook and it's very difficult to leave that,
It can become like a comfort rather than being seen as what's primarily been holding you back?

Just my take on it, right enough,..
Everyone has their own take on it,
and their own views on things

[Mr. Nobody]

I'd imagine that medication is only a part of the treatment for depression, possibly a small part?

I think the lifestyle and general outlook of the person can play a huge part?

It's a bit like taking painkillers for a bad back,
The painkillers are really only to help you get moving again, and that's what cures the bad back, the movement. Not the painkillers.

So, taking anti-depressants is really only to get you to the point of being able to get out and live a fuller more inclusive lifestyle,
But if you are only taking them to augment a depressive lifestyle and make it more bearable, then it's never going to work out.

I think we have lived or evolved a certain lifestyle and outlook and it's very difficult to leave that,
It can become like a comfort rather than being seen as what's primarily been holding you back?

Just my take on it, right enough,..
Everyone has their own take on it,
and their own views on things

[Dougella]

The point about Psilocybin, going back to the title of the post, is the experience that it gives people over the course of a few hours. It's not a case of one dose and someone is cured, but it's a very intense thing that can open people up emotionally and help them think differently. (As I understand it anyway.)

[Dougella]

No it's not like alcohol at all.

The point is it's done in a controlled environment with trained professionals to support the person through it.

[Spideysenses]

Building new neural pathways in the brain slowly overtime

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is...new%20memories.

[Mr. Nobody]

To affect

[Mr. Nobody]

Really fancy trying these again, . Albeit in a very restricted micro-dose kind of way.

[Mr. Nobody]

Tis the season to be jolly!

I might try and experiment with micro doses this season?

It is risky tho'

Sometimes I think my sanity is hanging by a thread.

[Dougella]

^ It would be good if it could be legally prescribed under medical supervision here, especially for microdosing.

[Mr. Nobody]

Yes,.. someone was explaining to me recently how to prepare them for micro-dosing,

I like the idea of it, as it seems quite a safe way of experimenting with it,.. I'm all for that.

Sometimes, it feels like all I need is a slight nudge or shift in perspective to change things?

[Ronnie_Pickering]

guess psilocybin will go the same way as cbd oil? really diluted stuff

[Dougella]

^ I don't think it could because with Psilocybin if you take enough of it you will get high/start tripping whereas CBD doesn't contain any chemical to get you high.

[Dougella]

The initial description of this is a bit strange and they are only studying terminally ill cancer patients, but still it's a start.

"London based start up to test psychedelics to treat mental disorders."

https://www.standard.co.uk/tech/psyc...6YAaJhDVVi85XY

[Ronnie_Pickering]

good article here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-f...e-life-lifted/

They say some kind of success but 77% people experiencing side effects, (nausea, dizziness) and 'trips' lasting 6 hours. They reckon licensing trials next year. Although some countries (Netherlands) have started doing 'retreats'.

[Mr. Nobody]

^

Dizziness of some form is always kind of a given with a trip I think.
It's never unpleasant enough to really be an issue.