I hate being made to play a game I can't win

[Effervescing Elephant]

This is a bit of a rant so please excuse me.

I've been trying very hard to improve my social skills for years - learning to make small talk, to make eye contact, to smile at people and ask about their health and wellbeing. I'm not flawless at this but I try hard.

I don't think it's helped me AT ALL. I don't think people like me very much because I haven't got anything they want.

I avoided going to a works night out in the week because I know I would be ignored. I have things that I could add to the conversation but I can't be bothered to speak up any more. I know that I'll just get talked over or my comments will be ignored.

I feel people are looking at me and thinking "you're not young and you're not rich and you're not cool and most important of all you're not attractive. Get the Hell out of my way"

There are several young handsome guys in our department and the women make a beeline for them, eager to talk about football with them (?!) . These are married women with children, old enough to be their mothers. I am lucky if anyone answers my "Good morning".

I'm getting fed up trying to be "nice". I feel like I'm desperately seeking approval from these people, pleading to be friends but they just give me the cold shoulder and it hurts.

I'm NOT saying that these are bad people, because they're not. They not shallow and the women I mention aren't being unfaithful (although they are very flirty). They're just being friendly for the most part. The young guys are perfectly decent and likeable and certainly not examples of that old SAUK favourite, "the bad boy".

The people at work know that I work hard and am smart and quite witty and am honest and all that sort of thing. I don't think that's enough to make them want to be friends with me though.

I just feel that I've been dealt a bad hand. A hand I can't win with. I can't see the point of continuing to make the effort. I was better off when I didn't speak, when I looked at the ground rather than making eye contact. It seems better not to compete when I will lose- that way I don't give the winners any satisfaction.

[vibracobra]

Originally Posted by Effervescing Elephant

I'm NOT saying that these are bad people, because they're not. They not shallow and the women I mention aren't being unfaithful (although they are very flirty). They're just being friendly for the most part. The young guys are perfectly decent and likeable and certainly not examples of that old SAUK favourite, "the bad boy".
.

this is what i find so hard to live with too, ultimately these people are perfectly likeable, they just happen to know how to 'play the game' it was only just last night how a workmate was talking about 'playing the game'.

nobody told me how to play! infact, i was always unaware there WAS a game!

[wjfox]

Originally Posted by Effervescing Elephant

I feel people are looking at me and thinking "you're not young and you're not rich and you're not cool and most important of all you're not attractive. Get the Hell out of my way"

No. That's just your own negative thoughts which are causing you to think that.

Cognitive distortion: Mind reading.

Even if they are thinking that (ALL of them??), it's no reason to beat yourself up over it. There are countless people in the world who are old, poor and/or unattractive - yet still manage to be happy, confident in themselves, and enjoying life.

Originally Posted by Effervescing Elephant

There are several young handsome guys in our department and the women make a beeline for them, eager to talk about football with them (?!) . These are married women with children, old enough to be their mothers. I am lucky if anyone answers my "Good morning".

I'm getting fed up trying to be "nice". I feel like I'm desperately seeking approval from these people, pleading to be friends but they just give me the cold shoulder and it hurts.

I'm NOT saying that these are bad people, because they're not. They not shallow and the women I mention aren't being unfaithful (although they are very flirty). They're just being friendly for the most part. The young guys are perfectly decent and likeable and certainly not examples of that old SAUK favourite, "the bad boy".

The people at work know that I work hard and am smart and quite witty and am honest and all that sort of thing. I don't think that's enough to make them want to be friends with me though.

I just feel that I've been dealt a bad hand. A hand I can't win with. I can't see the point of continuing to make the effort. I was better off when I didn't speak, when I looked at the ground rather than making eye contact. It seems better not to compete when I will lose- that way I don't give the winners any satisfaction.

It sounds like you're trying too hard to compete with and please other people, and you have what David Burns would call "love and approval addiction". Shift your focus away from trying to please others, and instead focus on accepting yourself, and becoming your own best friend. Learn to genuinely appreciate your own unique qualities, and stop taking life so seriously. People will start to notice your change in attitude, and the positive image you have about yourself will begin to shine through.

[Memory]

I sort of know how you feel.

Originally Posted by wjfox

Shift your focus away from trying to please others, and instead focus on accepting yourself, and becoming your own best friend. Learn to genuinely appreciate your own unique qualities

I agree with this.

[d-s-m]

Originally Posted by Cynic

No doubt if a 'bad boy' started picking on you, all these "decent and likable" people would follow suit and gang up.



Can anyone explain what 'playing the game' means exactly?

I'm guessing he''s referring to the 'social heirachy' game, where its cool to push people down the ladder who other people feel are beneath them in terms of social status and social skills.

[Libbyjay]

EE - I know how you feel. Not just with work but I feel like that with every aspect of life.

Originally Posted by Effervescing Elephant

I can't see the point of continuing to make the effort. I was better off when I didn't speak, when I looked at the ground rather than making eye contact. It seems better not to compete when I will lose- that way I don't give the winners any satisfaction.

It's not very nice when people give you the cold shoulder. But at least when the shield is up, you can deal with the rejection better - or I can at least. It hurts so much more when your actually trying to be nice and they just throw it back in your face.

[Ajax Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by Effervescing Elephant

This is a bit of a rant so please excuse me.

I've been trying very hard to improve my social skills for years - learning to make small talk, to make eye contact, to smile at people and ask about their health and wellbeing. I'm not flawless at this but I try hard.

I don't think it's helped me AT ALL. I don't think people like me very much because I haven't got anything they want.

I avoided going to a works night out in the week because I know I would be ignored. I have things that I could add to the conversation but I can't be bothered to speak up any more. I know that I'll just get talked over or my comments will be ignored.

I feel people are looking at me and thinking "you're not young and you're not rich and you're not cool and most important of all you're not attractive. Get the Hell out of my way"

There are several young handsome guys in our department and the women make a beeline for them, eager to talk about football with them (?!) . These are married women with children, old enough to be their mothers. I am lucky if anyone answers my "Good morning".

I'm getting fed up trying to be "nice". I feel like I'm desperately seeking approval from these people, pleading to be friends but they just give me the cold shoulder and it hurts.

I'm NOT saying that these are bad people, because they're not. They not shallow and the women I mention aren't being unfaithful (although they are very flirty). They're just being friendly for the most part. The young guys are perfectly decent and likeable and certainly not examples of that old SAUK favourite, "the bad boy".

The people at work know that I work hard and am smart and quite witty and am honest and all that sort of thing. I don't think that's enough to make them want to be friends with me though.

I just feel that I've been dealt a bad hand. A hand I can't win with. I can't see the point of continuing to make the effort. I was better off when I didn't speak, when I looked at the ground rather than making eye contact. It seems better not to compete when I will lose- that way I don't give the winners any satisfaction.

Hi EE,

Obviously we are seeing the situation from different perspectives here, and I realise that you are living this, while I'm only looking at it from afar and without the emotional involvement, but from here I'm not sure you have a 'bad hand' at all.

Firstly, you have made efforts to improve your social skills. This can only be a good thing. There is no draw-back to this. So on that score you have developed and grown. OK, it's not, as yet, brought you the social and personal rewards you may have hoped for, but it's still improvement under your belt and still stands you in good stead for the future.

You said -

Originally Posted by EE

I feel people are looking at me and thinking "you're not young and you're not rich and you're not cool and most important of all you're not attractive. Get the Hell out of my way"

Maybe here you are, as wjfox mentioned earlier, doing a bit of mind reading and projecting there. Sometimes we make harsh self-evaluations then project them on to others and assume they are thinking this of us even when they aren't. Yes, I know there are some people in life who see others in that kind of light, but hey, do you really want to know them anyway? Would you really value the opinion of a person who thinks like that towards others? I know I wouldn't.

I also find work environments a bit weird. People don't pick their colleagues, and we are all forced together and just have to make the best of it really. In previous jobs I've had some great relationships with certain people, yet never continued that friendship outside of the workplace. Why? Well only because when push comes to shove we didn't have enough common ground to build a sustainable friendship on outside of work. In the context of the workplace we got on, but we were so different that our outside work kind of living would be too different. We'd end up gravitating away from each other and towards others with more common ground. I think all I'm saying there is that even the best of working relationships may not translate to good external relationships.

One of the best work friendships I had was with a guy I'd never have gotten to know in any other way than in work. We were poles apart and I'd say quite wary of each other for a time. Eventually we were more open with each other, and although we had little in common we built a lovely friendship in the workplace. Outside of work we never called each other, never went for a beer. In fact, we did nothing together. So even the best of workplace relationships don't necessarily turn into friendships outside of work, but I'm ok with that.

With work I think we just have to go in, make it as pleasant an experience as we can, but then come home and do our own thing. Sometimes we may make a longterm friend in work, but if not, I don't think it's a case of use rejecting them or them rejecting us. It's just the way it goes in work generally I think.

Personally, I'd continue making an effort with people in work simply for myself. Because I'd want to make an effort and show an interest. What others made of that would be up to them. Me making the effort would make me feel good.

The game? Well I know what you mean. But I learned some years ago not to play other people's games. When you play other people's games on their turf and their rules, you never win. So don't play the game. I sidestep it, and by doing this I regain the power. OK, in some circumstances we have to go with the flow, but that in itself is us playing the long game, the clever game. Our game, not theirs.

The hand we are dealt? Well it depends where we play our hand doesn't it? A winning hand in one game wins you nothing in a different type of game. Personally, I'd not expect my hand (the way I am) to win me any games in work, but in the right place, with like-minded people, the cards I hold will be a winning hand. So it's not only about the hand we have to play with. It's about where and when we play it. That's a roundabout way of saying just because we aren't seen in the light we'd like in one place doesn't mean we won't be seen in a far better light elsewhere and in a different setting and crowd.

I'm sure in the right context, the right place and with the right people, the hand you hold is actually a lot more powerful and winning than you believe it to be.

Any efforts you continue to make, make them for yourself because that's the way you value being. The previous and continuing efforts made are helping you develop and grow anyway, and that strengthens your hand and stands you in better stead in the future.

Sorry if none of this is useful in any way. It's just a slightly different perspective, which may be useful or may not. I wish you well, EE. Take care.

[Mr Ploppy]

I know it wasn't for me but I had to say wise words as always

Originally Posted by Benfica

One of the best work friendships I had was with a guy I'd never have gotten to know in any other way than in work. We were poles apart and I'd say quite wary of each other for a time. Eventually we were more open with each other, and although we had little in common we built a lovely friendship in the workplace. Outside of work we never called each other, never went for a beer. In fact, we did nothing together. So even the best of workp-lace relationships don't necessarily turn into friendships outside of work, but I'm ok with that.

I've got one like that. Strange how things work out.

[Ajax Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by Mr Ploppy

I know it wasn't for me but I had to say wise words as always


I've got one like that. Strange how things work out.

Cheers Mr P. Yes, it is strange isn't it? I always look back on that friendship fondly. It was quite touching really. Two incredibly different people who only for being thrown together in work would never in a million years have even spoke to each other because our lives were so different. I think one of the joys of human contact is how we can sometimes create something so nice from nothing at all.

[Azi]

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