Minimum wage rates rises take effect today.

[Copernicium]

This might affect a few people here. The new minimum wage rates take effect today:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47746093

New minimum wage rates
National Living Wage - for 25-year-olds and over: £8.21 an hour (up from £7.83 - a 4.9% rise)
Minimum wage - 21 to 24-year-olds: £7.70 an hour (up from £7.38 - a 4.3% rise)
Minimum wage - 18 to 20-year-olds: £6.15 an hour (up from £5.90 - a 4.2% rise)
Minimum wage - 16 to 17-year-olds: £4.35 an hour (up from £4.20 - a 3.6% rise)
Apprentice rate: £3.90 an hour (up from £3.70 - a 5.4% rise)

This is an above inflation rise, but is it enough to live on? Living Wage Foundation doesn't think so:

The charity the Living Wage Foundation says the wage level needed to "meet the costs of living" is £9 an hour across the UK and £10.55 an hour in London

By my calculations the suggested £9 an hour works out, after tax, at about £1460 a month take home pay whereas the new minimum wage of £8.21 is £1333 a month take home pay.

It's an interesting topic, and I admit I don't know what a real living wage should be. Any thoughts?

I will say however that the Apprentice rate seems shockingly low to me at £3.90 an hour. When I left school 30 years ago I did some temping work in a warehouse during the summer and received £3.20 an hour (first pay packet always stays in the memory), and that was 30 years ago. Paying £3.90 an hour today just seems like slave labour to me.

[Toxic]

Everything will just go up and make it pointless

They now have to magic 38p per hour per member of staff out of thin air and keep all the prices the same?

I think living on £1333 per month would be dependent on circumstances, renting on your own in a small apartment/living with parents, cohabiting with someone else who also earns, probably doable.

Having kids? sounds like it would be tight, especially down south

Getting a mortgage I guess would be the hardest (if you wanted one!), as its only 4x your income? very difficult on your own, I mean what is minimum full time wage...16k a year? (I didn't work it out) getting a mortgage of 60-70k doesnt sound like it wouldn't get you far, I'm above minimum wage but would need a fair few more pay rises before I could get a usable amount and I live in the crummy north!

It's good its going up though, we have an apprentice at our place, they pay him £4.40 an hour instead of the legal minimum because it sounded like a piss take..he gets some proper shit jobs though.

[Schmosby]

Well my pay will stay the same, so I effectively get a pay reduction today.

I worked out for the "too lazy to work" thread, that on the previous minimum wage I would go £50 into debt each month, just paying the rent on a 1 bedroom flat, plus council tax and travel to work, that's before basic utility bills and food. Yet stupid people describe people living work free, in free housing with enough free money to cover their bills plus luxuries as deprived. It's quite sickening.

[Consolida]

Originally Posted by Copernicium

I will say however that the Apprentice rate seems shockingly low to me at £3.90 an hour. When I left school 30 years ago I did some temping work in a warehouse during the summer and received £3.20 an hour (first pay packet always stays in the memory), and that was 30 years ago. Paying £3.90 an hour today just seems like slave labour to me.

£3.90 an hour?! That's appalling

[Deer]

^ When I had an apprenticeship, I was on £60 a week and my Mam took board off me. £3.90 an hour isn't too bad if you have just left school but for adult apprenticeships, well yeah, it sucks!

[Deer]

^^^ yeah man, every time I get my benefits I hold a party to celebrate! Party food delivered by waitrose

[Dougella]

^^^^ Remember you live in London, so rent etc is a lot more than other parts of the country. And hang on, you walk to work, it doesn't cost you anything!



There's no such thing as work free, there are people who are unable to work and people who are trying to find work. Housing isn't free, if someone is in social housing they might find it's covered fully by housing benefit if they're lucky but if they're in private rented accomodation it usually costs more than housing benefit allows for and they have to make up the difference from their benefits (which is the case with me). It is not free money, it is given under certain conditions and comes from taxation which everyone has paid in to.


Also remember that this is the reason that a lot of people who have to claim benefits are actually in work and their pay isn't enough to cover their basic costs. That's why a living wage is important, it will decrease the benefits bill in the long run. There has been a benefits freeze which is still in place, no one on benefits is seeing their income increase.

[Dougella]

The apprentice rate is definitely too low! That really needs looking at.

[Franz of Franzylvania]

Originally Posted by Copernicium

By my calculations the suggested £9 an hour works out, after tax, at about £1460 a month take home pay whereas the new minimum wage of £8.21 is £1333 a month take home pay.

This doesn't seem quite right based on having worked for (albeit not much) over this new minimum wage and not gone home with that much. This website suggests the £9 an hour at forty hours a week would be more like £1355.45 a month. £8.22 comes out as £1262. https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/hourly.hpThat's also before the minimum required pension contributions, which have also gone up.

If you ignore the picture of a hipster gazing sadly at a laptop, this is quite a good article about how dire the state of wages in relation to the cost of living is for younger people : https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...ion-foundation. But as long as politicians can pitch badly off people in work and badly off people on benefits against each other it seems unlikely anything meaningful will be done. And I agree that the apprentice wage is ridiculous.

[Copernicium]

Originally Posted by tatzelwurm

This doesn't seem quite right based on having worked for (albeit not much) over this new minimum wage and not gone home with that much. This website suggests the £9 an hour at forty hours a week would be more like £1355.45 a month. £8.22 comes out as £1262. https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/hourly.hpThat's also before the minimum required pension contributions, which have also gone up.

I'm happy to go with your figures instead of mine. I was using this calculator:
https://salarybot.co.uk/take-home-pay-calculator/
and assuming a 37.5 hour week, but as you say, you have some actual experience of the real take home totals, so I will go with your numbers instead.

[Franz of Franzylvania]

Yeah the calculator things do seem to vary a lot, I don't know why. Hope it didn't sound like I was having a go!

[Copernicium]

Originally Posted by tatzelwurm

Hope it didn't sound like I was having a go!

No, not at all. In fact it is very interesting that for the £8.21 minimum wage you calculate a lower monthly take home figure of £1262. If the government's idea is to call this a 'living wage' then I can see they are allowing plenty of opportunity for criticism.

The basic idea, as I understand it, is to 'make work pay'. People working full time should be unambiguously much better off than if they are not working. The financial incentives should be clear and conspicuous. Whether that is always the case at the moment isn't clear to me.

[neilm]

Originally Posted by Deer

^ When I had an apprenticeship, I was on £60 a week and my Mam took board off me. £3.90 an hour isn't too bad if you have just left school but for adult apprenticeships, well yeah, it sucks!

Oh, I can beat that, I only got £35 per week in one Apprentice job I did.

Another apprenticeship I did paid around £45 per week (but that was for a 45-50 hour week)

I was aged 16-17 years old at the time and had to give £10 per week to my parents too

Think the Dole was around £27 per week at the time, and it didnt have the stigmatization and prejudice that surrounds claiming it as we see nowadays either.

Of course Ime talking about the mid 1980s here and things were different then...

Neither Apprenticeship worked out as it happens (combination of Lack of Apptitude/Bullying and SA Related issues).

But such is life...

[Deer]

^yes Neil, pretty similar story to what happened with me in my apprenticeship. I only lasted about 11 month for the same reasons. It wasn't joinery by any chance was it ? Lol

[far north]

Originally Posted by biscuits

Cor they take the piss a bit with Apprentices, don't they!

Well in the past (as I know from personal experience) apprentices certainly did get the piss taken out of them. Every bloody day in my case, and with a fair bit of physical violence thrown in for good measure!!!!

Ah the good old days....

I dont think the physical violence is so bad nowadays from what I can make out though, so at least we have progressed in that direction (if not necessarily in others)

[far north]

Originally Posted by Schmosby

Well my pay will stay the same, so I effectively get a pay reduction today.

I worked out for the "too lazy to work" thread, that on the previous minimum wage I would go £50 into debt each month, just paying the rent on a 1 bedroom flat, plus council tax and travel to work, that's before basic utility bills and food. Yet stupid people describe people living work free, in free housing with enough free money to cover their bills plus luxuries as deprived. It's quite sickening.

No disrespect mate, but if you think living in £70 per week (housing benefit paid only for the cheapest rents) is so easy and wonderful, then why not quit your job, and sign on?

Seriously, seeing as you seem to believe that youll be financially better off on benefits (which I can almost guarantee you wont be, incidentally!!!) whats stopping you?

Ime curious ?

[neilm]

Originally Posted by Deer

^yes Neil, pretty similar story to what happened with me in my apprenticeship. I only lasted about 11 month for the same reasons. It wasn't joinery by any chance was it ? Lol

No, plumbing Ime afraid