The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

[Sunrise]

I'm not sure what my motivation for living really is. It's not that I think things will get better, and it's not because I think people will miss me. A lot of people would be glad to see the back of me. I think my sole motivation is that I don't want to let them win. I don't want to give them the satisfaction of them being proved right and celebrating my demise. Sometimes I think my whole motivation for living these days is just to annoy people.

I'm in chronic emotional pain with recurring physical pain. I know people have it much worse than me, but I don't care really. They're obviously much stronger people than me. Sometimes I think I should be allowed to die with dignity and resent not being able to. If it's my life surely it's my choice, and being forced to do something I find immensely painful and don't get any sort of satisfaction from is barbaric really. I've felt like this for the best part of 20 years, it's not a "temporary problem" like so many patronisingly suggest.

I guess the whole problem I have is that even mental health support is basically aimed at regular people. The weirdos on the outside like me don't even exist to them, hence the sort of platitudes you get about there being "light at the end of the tunnel" etc. I'm not in that tunnel. I exist in a completely different dimension where there isn't any tunnels or any light.

Sorry if this is inappropriate. I should clarify all these thoughts are aimed at me and me alone, nobody else. If I knew anyone else who was suicidal I'd encourage them to seek urgent help. I think most people have lot's of things to live for. I genuinely don't think I have anything myself anymore though. I can only see things getting progressively worse for me. I'm getting increasingly stranger and I dread to think where I'm heading.

[girlinterrupted]

I'm so sorry you're feeling this way Sunrise,and have had to go through so much for so long. I won't give you the `temporary problem` thing because I know there are some situations that genuinely aren't. I'm afraid my brain is totally mushed,even moreso than usual,so I can't offer any helpful insight,other than to say for what it's worth (very little,I know) I can totally relate to your experience of even the usual rules of MH not applying to you/usual suggested solutions etc. Also to your last couple of sentences.

All I can say is that I hear you,and wish there wassomething I could say to make you feel any better at all.

Today is yet another bad day,it's not stopping,the pain nor the sobbing. I still don't want to be here without him,nor know how to be,and yet can't go because I can't do that to my mum. So here I am,Groundhog Day for the rest of my natural,or hers whichever comes first,of at best calm emptiness and ,more often,downright physically painful misery. I can't even talk about any of it too much or cry too much in front of mum as it stresses and upsets her so, so it's just me in my head or making an excuse to pretend to go try to sleep so really I can cry for a couple of hours and have time for my face to look ok again afterward. Supposed to have my first `emergency` aka 4 weeks later appointment this week with a link worker and I can't even see the point in that,what's she going to do,raise the dead? No,just offer me meds that I'll refuse to take and that'll be the end of that `help`.

I really really wish I still believed in or at least had hope of an afterlife.

[alpha]

Originally Posted by Mountainstream

I really hope things get better for you

Thank you. I'm feeling better than I was. I have to admit that what led to me being that pissed off was based on assumptions which turned out to be 100% false.

I'm pretty sure I have an "insecure attachment style" and it really is not helpful when trying to lead a healthy (or any) social and/or romantic life. Even right now my brain is trying to make the same negative assumptions about the same person, just on a different occasion.

Originally Posted by Mountainstream

I am one of ''those over sensitive people'' who are hurt by cold insensitive words. Particularly when intentional... And I feel that you are perhaps one of the few on the planet who maybe can relate to some extent. Not in being ''over sensitive'' but in having compassion and some understanding for others.

My problem seems to be expecting the same level of empathy and compassion to what I give from everyone I come across. It's like 90% of people probably admittedly fail to live up to my expectations. But I've become so hurt by the 90% I can't even tell whether someone's in the 10% anymore. Or put another way my brain just wants to assume they aren't as a defence mechanism.

Originally Posted by Mountainstream

I have experienced one of the most severe depressions of my life with suicidal ideation for longer than I care to say. The past week or so has been one of the worst for a while also. But today I feel less.. despair (for want of another word).. and you and a few others here have helped me with your kind words. Also your opening up here has helped me to do so

I can relate to that, the last few years of my life have definitely been the worst, which is saying something given that most of the rest of it was pretty shit too lol. I also relate to the suicidal ideation thing. Personally I don't think I actually want to die, just not live the way I have been. Anyway I'm glad you're feeling better also.

[alpha]

Originally Posted by gregarious_introvert

all I can ask is that you remember that it's never hopeless, that eventually - though it may take a long time - the fog will begin to lift and when you see that first chink of light at.the end of the tunnel, hold on to it and make it brighter. In the meantime, try to remember when things have been better - a time when a friend made you laugh, when someone gave you a hug which made you feel warm inside, when you felt the sun on your face, did something creative... whatever it might be, hang on to it as a reminder that times can better and will be again.

I would quote your whole post ideally because it was all wise words, thanks. How are you feeling these days?

[Bluebear]

Originally Posted by alpha

Thank you. I'm feeling better than I was. I have to admit that what led to me being that pissed off was based on assumptions which turned out to be 100% false.

I'm pretty sure I have an "insecure attachment style" and it really is not helpful when trying to lead a healthy (or any) social and/or romantic life. Even right now my brain is trying to make the same negative assumptions about the same person, just on a different occasion.

My problem seems to be expecting the same level of empathy and compassion to what I give from everyone I come across. It's like 90% of people probably admittedly fail to live up to my expectations. But I've become so hurt by the 90% I can't even tell whether someone's in the 10% anymore. Or put another way my brain just wants to assume they aren't as a defence mechanism.

I can relate to that, the last few years of my life have definitely been the worst, which is saying something given that most of the rest of it was pretty shit too lol. I also relate to the suicidal ideation thing. Personally I don't think I actually want to die, just not live the way I have been. Anyway I'm glad you're feeling better also.

Thank you for posting this. I find this thread very difficult to post in (for a number of reasons). I have spent over half an hour typing out a response which I scrapped. I will simply say I can relate to some of what you shared in this post.

[gregarious_introvert]

Originally Posted by alpha

I would quote your whole post ideally because it was all wise words, thanks. How are you feeling these days?

Me? I'm fine, thanks for asking. I'm not in the best of places emotionally, but I'm thankful that hasn't (as yet) opened the door to another depressive or agoraphobic episode and I know that things will get better. I'm glad to see that you appear to be feeling a little better now too and I hope you're able to stay positive, even though that can seem so difficult so often.

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[gregarious_introvert]

Originally Posted by Sunrise

I'm not sure what my motivation for living really is. It's not that I think things will get better, and it's not because I think people will miss me. A lot of people would be glad to see the back of me. I think my sole motivation is that I don't want to let them win. I don't want to give them the satisfaction of them being proved right and celebrating my demise. Sometimes I think my whole motivation for living these days is just to annoy people.



I'm in chronic emotional pain with recurring physical pain. I know people have it much worse than me, but I don't care really. They're obviously much stronger people than me. Sometimes I think I should be allowed to die with dignity and resent not being able to. If it's my life surely it's my choice, and being forced to do something I find immensely painful and don't get any sort of satisfaction from is barbaric really. I've felt like this for the best part of 20 years, it's not a "temporary problem" like so many patronisingly suggest.



I guess the whole problem I have is that even mental health support is basically aimed at regular people. The weirdos on the outside like me don't even exist to them, hence the sort of platitudes you get about there being "light at the end of the tunnel" etc. I'm not in that tunnel. I exist in a completely different dimension where there isn't any tunnels or any light.



Sorry if this is inappropriate. I should clarify all these thoughts are aimed at me and me alone, nobody else. If I knew anyone else who was suicidal I'd encourage them to seek urgent help. I think most people have lot's of things to live for. I genuinely don't think I have anything myself anymore though. I can only see things getting progressively worse for me. I'm getting increasingly stranger and I dread to think where I'm heading.

Sunrise, I apologise if you found my post "patronising" and full of "platitudes" - it wasn't aimed specifically at you, but to three others who posted in this thread recently and whose issues are different to yours. You have a complex set of issues to which there is no simple, quick or easily-identifiable answer. However, I do feel that depression (which is what my post was about) is always temporary, in that, even if an episode lasts for several years, there will be a time (however brief) when hope returns. The loss of hope is the worst thing of all and that's when we experience the feelings which lead to us posting here - if, indeed, we have the motivation to do even that.

I don't know what your solution is, but I am sure there will be one, even if you can't believe that right now. Meanwhile, there are many people on this forum who can empathise with parts of what you're feeling and who want to support you, even if they - and I - don't know how. People here do care about you and we want you to care about yourself.

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[Sunrise]

Thanks for your posts. Just to clarify my post wasn't directed at anyone in particular (apart from myself.)

I don't think I have depression, and it's debateable if I have any sort of mental health issue at all. The only problem I really have is that I'm absolutely terrible at life. But the world doesn't owe me a living, so I just have to do the best I can. When people with things like depression talk about wanting to live a "normal life" I think they mean a life free of depression. When I talk about a "normal life" I mean living in a completely different way to how I've lived for the past twenty years. This so-called depression is the real me, it's all I've ever known as an adult. I don't need to "get my sparkle back" or whatever as I never had it in the first place.

These days there seems to be the nice, safe, friendly side of mental illness where people share inspirational quotes and talk about how it's ok to talk. But then there's the other side which is still very scary and alien and makes people feel very uncomfortable. I'm not depressed or unhappy, I just find life an incredible struggle and get little enjoyment out of it. That's just me, and I don't want to compare myself to others who have it worse. As horrible as it sounds I just don't enjoy living and don't see it as an amazing gift to be cherished (although I can see why others do think that.) I tried and failed, repeatedly. I'm just terrible at life.

[Sunrise]

I don't know. I don't really have any hopes, dreams, goals or ambitions. I'm not sure I ever really have to be honest. I've never really thought like that. I'm not sure it's something I can really comprehend as it doesn't fit my way of thinking or personality.

[Sunrise]

I think I know what you mean but I don't know how to answer it. I struggle to comprehend living life any differently. This is the only way I know how to live and I struggle to imagine anything different. I don't really know what I would do differently or what would be better for me.

[Bluebear]

''the loss of hope is the worst thing of all'' - I agree. I could say more that might be helpful (to even one person? I don't know) but right now I don't feel I have much to contribute. I wish everyone well and hopefully better days. I'm sorry I haven't contributed more re my experiences (etc) in this thread but got triggered (my stuff)… I hope this isn't inappropriate. (also I can't take meds as I mentioned before which is also a trigger for me, so although I have genuinely wanted to be of support my personal triggers have made that difficult.) If I don't feel somewhat better soon I might consult a doctor but I am not optimistic due to my severe allergies to meds etc (which I do not like talking about as I doubt if there is a solution). (as I mentioned in another thread I am going to have to consult a doctor soon for something else. Its what I call a cattle call call in. I have a lot of respect for doctors who care but I haven't found very many personally... and that is not because I have done anything wrong, quite the opposite in fact... I have been compliant, quiet etc. This is causing me a lot of distress and anxiety (and more su ideation) partly as I might be allergic to the medication that may be prescribed for another issue.... but I might not have to take meds. That is my hope Sorry for the incoherent post I have always found this thread in particular hard to post in, I have physical symptoms of anxiety typing this which I usually do not have typing online. (just cognitive symptoms mostly) I have a severe anxiety re anything medical. (Not ''normal'' anxiety that many have) I hope this isn't triggering to anyone.

[girlinterrupted]

@Bluebear Your post is fine it's very understandable to not want to add to your triggers! I'm sorry you're having such a tough time atm and hope that the physical anxiety symptoms pass soon for you Thinking of you

[Bluebear]

Originally Posted by girlinterrupted

@Bluebear Your post is fine it's very understandable to not want to add to your triggers! I'm sorry you're having such a tough time atm and hope that the physical anxiety symptoms pass soon for you Thinking of you

Thank you girlinterrupted, I appreciate your kindness. I'm thinking of you also

[Bluebear]

Re another post in this thread... if I could imagine a life that might fit better. It's very hard to imagine as I've spent so long trying to … be there for other peoples needs. (or simply to ''get by'' ) (and I have severe allergies and other issues....which limit my life in many ways which no one I have talked to understands, even one person who does understand...(or possibly one other person who understands and does try to understand... also I don't like talking about it..) well it doesn't change ''reality'' I have been told I have.... I don't want to say as it is negative and cruel and one of the worst things anyone could say to a young person (or child or anyone...) So basically this post says nothing. But uses quite a lot of words....I've said I am not good with words and I also confused a doctor the first time I went for help. I had a physical issue I wanted to talk about which was completely dismissed. it was complicated..... I did not trust the doctor but I wasn't expecting the level of cruelty and lack of understanding the doctor showed...That was his excuse for..... again my internal censor will not allow me to post that. I hope this post isn't triggering to anyone. I have great respect for caring doctors and other professionals. I'm sorry about the incoherent post. When my anxiety is particularly severe I am sometimes incoherent like this. Usually I say nothing though as its (usually) safer

[Bluebear]

I asked the doctor a very dumb question. I was (and am) an adult but was talking like a child....I think I was triggered into a younger state by his questioning and patronising and rude attitude.. not that I am not capable of talking as an adult (at least I hope I am... right now I am questioning even that ugh...) Basically I asked him how someone would put up with an extreme issue all their life. He just said ''they cope''

Well yes … I suppose...

and that is all that he ''offered''

I also do not think 6 sessions of CBT is going to fix anyone's complex issues caused by trauma, neglect, or even genetics … not that I am any sort of ''expert''...

Reality... such a complex issue... and not one I have found any help at all with from the mh professionals. They gave me their take on my life and that was it. My opinions apparently did not matter... and still don't (to them)

[Bluebear]

Originally Posted by Sunrise

I don't know. I don't really have any hopes, dreams, goals or ambitions. I'm not sure I ever really have to be honest. I've never really thought like that. I'm not sure it's something I can really comprehend as it doesn't fit my way of thinking or personality.

Sunrise, I've been reading your posts in this thread and I can relate to some (quite a lot) of what you say.. I am one of the weirdos on the outside. I'm pretty terrible at life, if I am honest. I wasn't given the basic gifts and/or tools in early childhood that ''normal'' children receive... unconditional love (the list could go on....) and no I am not ''blaming'' the parental units. Its possible they did the best they could. (when I was very young anyway..) I'm sure the mother was depressed, untreated and was very withdrawn and there was a bonding issue...) The paternal unit? I won't go there... I've always disliked …. for example... a question in a job interview ''where do you want to be in 5 years time''.. that was (and is) beyond me, on so many levels. And I do not want to say what I have been thinking … but as we are in this thread maybe you can imagine. I appreciate your sharing here, in a sense it helps me... not that that would be any consolation since I am a nobody in life (and always have been). (to the ''majority'' anyway.....) Although who is a ''somebody'' and who is a ''nobody''.... its all a matter of perception. I personally believe everyone has value … immense value even...(I know not everyone agrees...) I hope you keep sharing, whether or not I will is another issue. I have severe trust issues, for one thing.

[Bluebear]

Originally Posted by Nanuq

^ Your posts have been so valuable to me, Bluebear
You've helped me understand things from a different perspective, because even after 'coping' (or not coping some times!) with long term issues for so many years, it's possible to understand them better.

Thank you Nanuq. Your posts are very valuable to me also (for similar reasons)

(and we are both bears )

possible trigger warning...

……..
……..
……..

For me, understanding (and expression) can be helpful. I enjoy learning new things (except when very severely depressed when my brain is … sub optimal...) (but maybe that shows I still have some ''hope''.. for now anyway.. I don't think I have completely given up on my desire to understand humans (and bears) more (even though... the professionals in my particular area of the forest... did not even encourage that. grrrr..) (and I can't say I am optimistic I would find a therapist who would meet my admittedly high expectations... of having respect, empathy, compassion, intelligence, kindness, and some creativity... oh, and patience .. and also I do prefer it if a therapist I employ does not use me for narcissistic supply and then when they become bored I prefer it if they do not dump me and blame me and … (Possible trigger) violate me with excessively cruel words and other things.. (and lie also.... wrong labels etc etc) (I think I might be better at spotting that though and leaving before they dumped me... since in my experience any empathy they may express is... not what I think empathy actually is. sorry for the ''tmi''.... so yes basically I seek understanding too (if I had more money I might consider psychoanalysis... but I am not sure after the ''experience'' I had with the ''therapist'' who claimed to be giving ''dynamic'' analytic ''therapy'' grrr.. I could think of some other words to describe it. (or maybe I am ''paranoid'' and even ''delusional'' and ''imagined'' things... I think not though.

I do not feel at all comfortable writing all this but it might help me or possibly someone else, (?) (maybe i'm just a dreamer...) since what I am writing is 100 percent reality (as I perceive reality anyway)

(to anyone reading apologies in advance for the ''tmi'' and I do not have any desire to ''therapist bash'' for the fun of it. I do not have ''fun'' bashing or criticising people... I know there are some excellent and caring therapists out there..)

[Bluebear]

I no longer accept the restrictions imposed upon me by various wrong and cruel labels..
Call a bear an ugly name..
Say a bear doesn’t deserve to live..
(from abusers in real life, not online..)
Garbage in, from those with Opinions..
And I send that same garbage Out..
It never belonged to me..
All this has been fuelling my severe suicidal ideation..and severe CPTSD/anxiety/loss of hope ...
I had been so shamed by professionals and others..
That I was afraid to speak (having done nothing wrong )
(i think Winnicot (sp) spoke of the “false self” - not sure.. I will have to research that..)

Garbage in

Garbage out

GIGO

I believe in random acts of kindness..
If this is of help or interest to even one person who reads this (guest or member)
And I will likely never know..
Then that will be a positive.. imo..

[Bluebear]

Amazingly, I am not feeling suicidal today. And I will not be reading or posting in this thread again unless I am …. I would like to support others but it would appear that is not my ''purpose'' here...

[Bluebear]

Hmm.. ok so it looks like something has been deleted...
Best wishes to all who are able to accept that.

[girlinterrupted]

Trapped.

[Bluebear]

^

[alpha]

It seems this world is nothing but misery, panic, pain and an almost total lack of serious emotional connection. Just a robotic zombie-like ****ing existence that feels endless. Which possibly explains why psychopaths, narcissists and other horrible bastards end up getting on quite nicely in the world. A selection of them are running it. **** this life, seriously.

And that"s putting how I feel pretty mildly.

[alpha]

And by the way part of what I'm trying to say is that being a nice person gets you ****ing nowhere. I get told it all the time by people, it means **** all. It's not attractive (apparently), it won't bring you happiness, it will make you suffer because you have the ability to experience emotions sensitively. Until you are so depressed you see no point or prospects.

[alpha]

^ It's not that people are taking the piss, I learned to recognise people with narc/psycho/socio tendencies long ago. And it's not even that I don't think there are other nice people in the world. There are nice people on here. I'm just saying that, and this sounds big headed now but I can't help my experience, I get told what a nice person I am on a not too irregular basis by people in real life. But it doesn't get me deep emotional connections which is what I crave. Two people being nice doesn't necessarily mean they'll have a deep understanding of each other.

And being nice doesn't get me romantic ones these days either, in fact I doubt it was being nice that ever did. And it seems to me that being nice is not really attractive, especially if you happen to be a heterosexual male. Being confident, cocky, witty, funny, and/or rich on the other hand will get a complete bastard as many such connections as they wish, even if most of the women will later regret it. And yes even women who are nice, caring, affectionate, empathetic people will reject males who don't fit at least some of the above descriptors. I know this because that exact thing has happened to me recently more than once.

And I was just saying that based on what I know about people with narc/psycho/socio tendencies and generally selfish people, they seem to end up at the top of the pile most of the time. They generally don't care who they hurt in order to get what they want basically. So they quite often get it. And what they want is money, power and superficial connections with people who they can use and exploit. Much easier to get that than deep connections with other nice people.

[Dougella]

^ Nice is an odd word for describing people isn't it, because it's not entirely positive. I remember a very wise poster here once saying that he wasn't nice and he didn't want to be described as nice and I feel the same. It's better to be someone who is genuine and caring, but who won't take any nonsense from people, who won't let people walk all over them and is ok with voicing thier own opinions rather than just following what other people do or say.

[alpha]

^ I would agree that "nice" is very subjective, means different things to different people. But what I mean by "nice" is basically as you say, genuine, empathetic, etc. I also agree that standing up for yourself is very much necessary for "nice" people.

[girlinterrupted]

I like `nice` too,it's nice to be nice! Nice doesn't have to mean weak or a pushover,or anything negative at all come to that,although I think it does get co-opted a lot in recent years to mean just that,which is a shame. It happens though,my usage of a word will differ from the mainstream (after the mainstream has changed the meaning) then I'm caught between using it and being misunderstood or not and going with a term I know will be taken as I intend it.

I get what you mean alpha,the world often feels a far more combative place than it did when I was growing up,although that could just have been youthful naivete. There are definitely still nice people as you say,it can certainly feel like they're diminishing though,and as you mentioned merely finding a nice person doesn't mean you'll hit it off as friends nevermind anything more.

Not sure what the point of any of this was other than to say I sympathise alpha,and I hope you start running into so many nice people you don't know what to do with them all.

[alpha]

Originally Posted by girlinterrupted

I Not sure what the point of any of this was other than to say I sympathise alpha,and I hope you start running into so many nice people you don't know what to do with them all.

Thank you! I've calmed down a bit from my tantrum stage earlier anyway lol. I think I need to put myself in a position of meeting new people more often. It's not always easy for me as aside from social anxiety, I also suffer from chronic pain. But that's what I intend to try and do.

[gregarious_introvert]

I'm with Nanuq and girlinterrupted on this, there is nothing wrong with being nice - I like to think of myself as being nice (and one day I'm sure there will be someone who agrees with my description of myself!), but also assertive when the occasion demands - and there are plenty of ladies out there who appreciate nice men and wish that they could meet nice men instead of the pushy, narcissistic, self-serving, dominant types who thrust themselves upon them.

I know that you are someone others would be lucky to have as a friend, alpha, so be yourself, keep meeting people and you will find others who like you for who you are, not because you fit some kind of stereotype.