Were you properly socialized?

[Moksha]

A few years ago, I was talking to a very intelligent and perceptive girl about my life and problems. I said "you know, looking back, I'd say I was mentally ill even as a child." But she rolled her eyes at this and replied "you weren't ill, you just weren't properly socialized."

What was your childhood like? Would you say you were socialized? The key seems to be your parents and their attitude to the outside world. In that respect I really suffered. My father was an angry, introverted, paranoid, misanthropic man who pretty much hated everyone. The overwhelming message was: "people are vile. Give the chance they'll rape you and steal from you. Stay away and trust no one." When we went into town on a Saturday, he'd want to go in early "before the animals start pouring in." Imagine saying that to an eight year old child! We also lived right out in the countryside, with no kids my age in the street. And I had no extended family either. Plus, I was an only child until nearly six.

My father was incredibly possessive and childish. When he and my mother first married, she wanted him to come to a wedding with her, but he wouldn't. So she went on her own and he refused to speak to her for days! His own childhood had been miserable and loveless, and when he was 14 his mother had run away with another man. Deep down he was incredibly insecure. When he got a family of his own, he pushed everyone else away. He had no friends, no hobbies, and never went anywhere, other than work. The idea of my father organizing a party was laughable. And it was all deliberate. It was as if he thought we'd run away if he turned his back (like his mother had done I guess). If he could, I think he'd have built a huge barbed wire fence around our house and garden.

I'm convinced genetics has played a big part in my personality disorder, but who knows what I'd be like if I'd had a different childhood. Imagine growing up in a big house in the centre of a city like Manchester or London. Virtually every evening the house is filled with artists and writers - all smoking, drinking, laughing and talking. At weekends your parents throw big parties that often last from Friday night to Saturday morning. There's no escape. From day one you are intensely socialized, exposed to dozens of different people and forced to talk and interact every day. Looking back, I think I needed to be both intensely socialized and given lots of space and freedom. Instead, I grew up in a suffocating family unit presided over by a damaged, clinging, needy, childish father, and wasn't socialized at all.

[Dougella]

The odd thing is I was socialised in a perfectly normal way, my parents are both socially confident and capable I would say. But I still developed severe social anxiety and have always struggled with confidence and social skills.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Galatea;2429193 I have also learned that [I

everyone[/I], I think, has a secret place within where they acknowledge to themselves a wish that something had been different in their childhoods, whether they felt ignored, controlled, overwhelmed, bustled, unheard.

Plodding on...

Yes, very true Galatea. I don't feel any bitterness towards my parents. They were incredibly loving and loyal. And any harm they caused me was completely unintentional.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Dougella

The odd thing is I was socialised in a perfectly normal way, my parents are both socially confident and capable I would say. But I still developed severe social anxiety and have always struggled with confidence and social skills.

The origins of SA fascinate me. I've been on and off this forum for years, and yet I never feel I really understand. I guess it has to be a combination of genes and environment. You can't separate them. I suspect (though I can never be sure) that my cousin and my friend would have thrived in my place. By nature they were just more extrovert and resilient; my father's controlling, suffocating, anti-social nature wouldn't have affected them like it did me. But what if I'd grown up in some chaotic bohemian family, surrounded by people, with my parents throwing parties every weekend, and so on? Same genes, different environment. You can drive yourself mad!

[Dougella]

^ Yeah totally. I think there's a genetic component with me and my natural temperament is very introverted. I have two siblings and one in particular has always been very sociable, in fact the centre of his social group, and yet we have the same parents and grew up in the same environment!
I have heard people here quite often say they had parents who didn't socialise and they therefore didn't get that practice of social experiences when they were young and I do think that has a profound effect.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Dougella

^ I have two siblings and one in particular has always been very sociable, in fact the centre of his social group, and yet we have the same parents and grew up in the same environment!

My sister recently had a friend visit with her two daughters, one twelve the other eight She said the differences in their personalities is extraordinary. The eldest takes after her father: quiet, dull, monosyllabic, and solaid back. He is nice enough, but he just has nothing to say. And that's exactly what his eldest is like. Even in her text messages she will reply with just one word (which is what he does in conversation). The other is a little ball of energy and emotion, however. And you could see those differences when they were no more than toddlers.

[firemonkey]

My parents were quite social when I was young, although my mother's increasing problem drinking/alcoholism over the years might have been a prop to make socialising easier for her.

[Dougella]

Originally Posted by mutedsoul

^Probably come across snowflakey here but I don't really like the word dull to describe someone. Are her thoughts dull, her skills. Idk, I would probably be considered dull by some people, but they are people I usually don't open up around and I know that my mind is far from dull.

I feel the same about that word, it has some negative connotations. Being a quieter person isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just a variation in personality and has positive points too.

[Moksha]

Originally Posted by Melangell

I don't think extroversion is related to resilience.

Resilience comes very early and is learned from a good balance of risk taking with support, i.e. as a baby you need parents relaxed enough to let you explore, but loving enough to care when you come back to them wailing your head off. You learn it's ok to explore the world and take risks and get knocked about a bit, because someone always has your back.

Extroversion isn't really linked to resilience, you can be an extrovert with very little internal resilience, just look at all the famous people over the years who fall to pieces.

I expect your friend and your cousin would have grown up differently in your home environment, they might still have been extrovert, but they would have had less self reliance and resilience.

In my dysfunctional family,my extroverted sister has had eating disorders and bouts of psychosis throughout her life, and my brother is a fantasist. People who don't get brought up in a decent, loving home would rarely escape without some kind of problem I reckon.

It's a very interesting point, I mean that extroverts aren't necessarily more resilient. I guess we all assume that they are. And like most SA sufferers I imagine that a life without SA must be a breeze. But of course it isn't. You can be socially confident and free of shame yet suffer a completely different set of problems.

The girl I mentioned in my opening post said I wasn't properly socialized, which is true. But then she had been exceptionally well socialized. She was the youngest of five and grew up in a big house in central London. Her parents were highly sociable, always going on marches, hosting dinner parties, and so on. Like most people I struggle to understand my own childhood because I have nothing to compare it to. We only ever grow up in one family home with one set of parents. I have no idea what the normal amount of socializing is.

Thinking about it, she was a bit SA herself. Or she claimed to be. But her SA was different. She hated meeting new people because she felt so **** about herself: she hated her body, thought she was ugly, and felt like the failure of the family. But her actual social skills, her sense of knowing what to do and how to talk to people, were first class. Unlike her, I'd grown up in the countryside as virtually an only child, with a father who hated people and didn't like them in the house. At the time I knew her, my social skills were non-existent. I simply had no idea how to talk to people. But I felt OK about my body and looks. She, on the other hand, had been intensely socialized but still felt anxious because she thought people were going to laugh at and reject her.