Upsetting people when you show your true self

[Sunrise]

I find this happens a lot. I come across as quiet at first and I think it gives off a false impression that I'm a much nicer person than I really am.

It's when I open up more and people get to know the real me when they tend to take a real dislike to me. The idea that when I come out of my shell I'll blossom into a beautiful swan certainly isn't true for me. (Think I might have got confused with different metaphors there, do swans come out of shells?)

I think that's why I'm seen as so manipulative. It's like I'm trying to hide how awful I am through a facade of shyness. And I suppose that is exactly what I am doing.

I really wish I could just be a nice person, but no matter how hard I try, it's never genuine. And the fact that I need to try hard is probably part of the problem.

It's strange. Being so horrible doesn't make me happy at all, but it's like it's the only way I know how to be. If I'm genuinely being myself, I'm a horrible, nasty, bitter, jealous, histrionic, possessive person who does nothing but make other people's lives a misery.

[Consolida]

^ I know that if you were truly as horrible as you say you are then you wouldn't write introspective posts on here about how horrible you are.

You say that if you're genuinely being yourself then you're a horrible person but what are you being on here then? Undoubtedly what you write in this post is genuine and straight from the heart, and yet it doesn't make you seem like a horrible person at all, far from it.

Worrying about the negative effect that you have on others doesn't suggest to me that you are nasty at all but that you care way too much, perhaps obsessively so. I can't imagine that individuals who are manipulative would spend time feeling guilty or ashamed in the way that you do.

We've all hurt people in our lives, sometimes intentionally and sometimes not, but it's all part and parcel of being a human. Doesn't everyone experience emotions of jealousy, bitterness or resentment? I know I certainly have! I'm certain that even the nicest most saintly of folk occasionally have hateful thoughts. The empathetic, kind, funny person that you so often are on SAUK is surely as true and genuine as any of the other less positive facets to your character that you talk about.

Everyone makes mistakes that can't be undone but the most important thing is to try and learn from those mistakes and to avoid repeating them in the future.

I don't know if you've read much on OCD where a person can experience thoughts that lead them to struggling with guilt and shame? As someone who also suffers with persistent feelings of guilt and shame I know how toxic it can be AND how essential it is to start showing yourself a little kindness Sunrise

I hope something among that waffle made sense.

[neilm]

Originally Posted by Nanuq

Just wanted to add something about this that might seem obvious and, if so, I apologise, but having unhelpful emotional reactions and behaviours doesn't make you a 'bad' person. This is something that you learn about a lot in child development and education. There are rare 'bad' people. These are people who enjoy cruelty and would be described as psychopaths and you can spot them very young. I have met two children in all the children I have looked after who's methodical sadistic behaviour seemed to point in that direction. That kind of behaviour is very rare and I would (even this is probably disputed by some) describe them as 'horrible'.

Every single other child does some horrible things some of the time. It doesn't make you a horrible person, it means that you haven't learned to modify your behaviour so that other people don't get hurt or upset. Many, many people learn coping strategies like bitching, gossiping, siding with bullies, sarcasm, defensiveness etc to just cope with school and then work. Probably most adults go into the work environment with a bunch of coping mechanisms and aren't their fully relaxed, open selves. It's really normal I think, and you can see the dynamics of it emerging in a room full of toddlers. It's a response to the stress of being chucked into an environment full of people you aren't related to and don't love you.

As an educator you are taught never to say to children 'you're naughty' or 'bad'. You are taught to separate the behaviour from the child, so they don't internalise feelings of shame or think they are a bad person. Growing up I don't think adults used to be so careful of that emotional power and lots of us in the past have been shaped by criticism and negative comments about us as people, rather than isolated things we might have done.
It might be that you need to learn to psychologically separate yourself from your behaviour. It's about unpicking it and finding out what motivates it.

Hope this makes some sense, I'm feeling a bit tired and muddled so sorry if it's just rambling

Very good, insightful post, Nanuq.

Quite similar to my own thoughts really..

[firemonkey]

My experience of bullying was hardcore bullies-those close to them but less dominant- through to those who didn't so much approve of the bullying, but as not wanting to be a target for bullying themselves. There is no excuse and justification for bullying someone who is different- physically awkward and socially gauche. It's unacceptable behaviour, and should be treated as such.

[Sunrise]

I don't think I'm a bully. My behaviour is 100% defensive. I don't attack others, in fact I don't dislike people at all. I'd never take out any of my anger or insecurities on others. I'm just very defensive. Everything I do is about protecting myself.

Life to me is all about survival and coping mechanisms. I'm not friendly, but I'm not unfriendly either. I just find it hard to trust people and try not to reveal any weakness or insecurity as so many people would be quick to pounce on it

[biscuits]

I know I've felt terrible in the past once I've realised that my friends were upset that I cut contact with them. At the time I was going through a lot and didn't want anyone to find out, which resulted in me hiding away from them, making excuses not to go out with them, never messaging them - until they eventually gave up.

I think SA can wrongly make a person appear horrible, if you put it down on paper:

Making excuses
Not responding to messages because of not knowing what to say etc.
Avoiding folk
Not giving the best eye contact
Appearing disinterested
Not being very chipper/chatty

There's no bad intent with the above though and they're all things that can be worked on and that sort of naturally improve when you grow in confidence.

Would you mind sharing some examples of the things that you consider horrible? I only ask because you never come across as horrible on here, so it's hard to see what you mean by you being a horrible person. Not to worry if you'd rather not

[Sunrise]

My horrible traits are much worse than your typical SA ones:

Needy
Attention seeking
Histrionic
Hysterical
Paranoid
Argumentative
Manipulative
Sarcastic
Slow witted
Aloof and distant
Nothing in the way of charm or charisma
Incoherent speech
Unable to discuss anything beyond basic small talk
Over inflated opinion of myself and my abilities despite all these faults

I basically try and force people into liking me and am quick to get upset when they inevitably don't. I act like a horrible person but play the victim when people call me out on it. I try and be nice, but the above list sort of cancels that out and shows it up for how fake it is.

I'm a narcissist without the superficial charm. I don't think I have the intelligence to be a genuine narcissist. Most people I meet think I'm just a bit thick. I definitely come across as someone with serious issues.

I live in a town that's regularly listed as one of the friendliest in the country, yet I'm absolutely despised here. I think that says it all really. And being such a small place, I do have a reputation as a local oddball. People recognise me and I can't escape it, it's something that will always stick.

[Consolida]

^ Are you despised by the people in your town or is it that you've told yourself this because of your distorted deep seated belief that you're an absolutely horrible person with not a single redeeming feature?

How does their supposed hate manifest into actions?

Hatred is such a strong emotion that it's simply not possible to believe that anyone could feel this way towards you unless you've said or done something unbelievably hurtful or offensive. In reality, most neighbours will be unaware of your existence or at the most have feelings of indifference.

Your list of horrible traits are traits that every human being has to a lesser or greater extent. For example, I don't know anyone, as nice as they may be, who is never argumentative, sarcastic, or paranoid. As for being needy does that make someone horrible or isn't it a symptom of low self esteem and insecurity and suggests a mental health issue that is NOT your fault.

How about writing down a list of your nice traits, Sunset?

I'll start you off...

Empathetic
Articulate
Sensitive
Quick witted

[biscuits]

^ agreed. I get no sense at all that you're a wrong-un. It would be really clear from your responses to people on here and your online demeanour (or dementor as my phone keep changing it to haha) if you were. You come across as a decent fella . But I think that protective behaviours can be misconstrued as being not very nice, but it's people's intent that determines if someone is being horrible on purpose. If you're having a sa freakout and rejecting people it's not with the intention of hurting them, it's like an uncontrollable thing. But something to work on, I guess.

Sorry I should take my ramblings to the rambling thread hehe

[Bored]

you could try a CBT experiment, try it for a week or so

write down what you are going to do tomorrow, and write down what you think will happen when you do it , then write down what you would like to happen eg : do a good job, say hello to somebody, help somebody etc

in the evening write down what happened when you did the things you did, and write down what you were thinking when doing them

ok, how do what you think will happen compare to what actually happened? better or worse? if worse think of things you could do differently and try them the next day, maybe things went better, after a week or so you might see that you are not as bad as you think,

but you probably won't try this as its homework innit and nobody likes homework

it's something you have to keep at, as it can take 66 days at least to form new habits and neural pathways in the brain, and even after that it's an ongoing thing

but if you do it give us some feedback to how it went, good luck