Freedom from anxiety, after 10 years searching. My story and offer of support..

[Garlleg8]

Originally Posted by Tonkin

What you describe there sounds very like the Eckart Tolle stuff or Buddhism in general.

Something along the lines of all suffering comes from resisting what is.

Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional etc.

It does sound interesting, but I'll be impressed if you can teach enlightenment to people!

And if you can, that it is enough to overcome mental illness. Or do you not consider social anxiety to be a mental illness? Or is your "approach" not aimed at people with serious anxiety?

It is my experience that all spiritual texts point ultimately to the same thing, the same unchanging universal truth, that countless civilisations have pointed to, through the ages.
Fortunately, enlightenment isn’t necessary in overcoming anxiety

Just the seeing or realisation of what is true in relation to the experience of anxiety, is all that is needed. And that is very achievable. It is not some grand experience saved only for certain people, but available and accessible to every single one of us. But that is not something I can teach, only wake someone to what they already know, but seemed to have been forgotten. That is why this is so powerful, I can only point someone to look for themselves, and when they do, they begin to discover what is true, in their direct experience. Not because it is a good idea, or because someone else said so, but because they know it for themselves.

It would depend on someone’s definition of mental illness, but I don’t think of social anxiety as a mental illness, such as schizophrenia as an example. What i’m offering is applicable to anyone, whatever their degree of anxiety. That is not to say certain ‘methods’ such as exposure therapy aren’t helpful in this process, I have found they are, but they can only ever treat the symptoms and never address the true root of anxiety, never bring true freedom that we all desire and deserve to experience.

[Garlleg8]

Originally Posted by Aelwyn

I agree with Garlleg that worrying about the anxiety makes it worse, it feeds off itself. But a lot of what we’re worrying about is other people’s impressions of us, and telling ourselves that that isn’t a real problem would be pointless - it is a problem.

If people simply noticed me shaking with anxiety and thought no more about it, I think I would quite quickly get over the SA. But it has been noticed, and especially in a work setting this can cause difficulties. Perhaps stronger minded people than me could keep on putting themselves into these situations and ignore the impression they’re giving, but I’ve not been able to do that.

Can you ever remember an experience, even once, maybe in a different area of your life, where people had judgements towards you about something, but it didn’t seem to bother you?
It is my experience, that when we reject something deeply in our heart, then our whole experience of it, our whole reality is informed by that rejection, and our ‘outer’ experience reflects that too. But when we have allowed something to be, deeply in our heart, when resistance is no longer present, then even if others dislike something in us, it doesn’t really matter to us. Not because we are ‘strong minded’, but because there is no resistance to its presence from within, and that is the only place that resistance can truly live.

[Garlleg8]

As I mentioned before, I would also like to share some ways in which this understanding can be more directly experienced in relation to anxiety in every day life. I will share these over the next few days. I would love to continue this conversation with you all and explore if and what you see differently, as a result of what I will share.

I would also love to recommend a book that is available which works on this same understanding, from a British psychologist and coach who has over the past few years been getting amazing results with clients with anxiety. Here: https://www.amazon.com/Little-Peace-.../dp/178817304X

She also has a website with many great resources and content too, for those interested.

[Tonkin]

Interesting. I will check out that book.

[Aelwyn]

Thank you for your reply, Garlleg8, I appreciate all your efforts to support and help us. And yes I can remember occasions when I haven't cared about people's negative opinions of me. However those were people who either I didn't like anyway, or whose opinion of me could have no effect on my personal or work life.

The trouble with being shaky and nervous in social situations is that (in my experience) people think there is something wrong with us. They react with concern or alarm, which makes things worse, and the cycle continues. We are not seen as ideal employees! This is not how it should be, but in my experience it is how society tends to view us. A lot of physical disabilities are viewed in the same way, as I'm sure you will know.

What I feel I am rejecting is not myself and my anxiety, but the social consequences of the anxiety showing.

[Garlleg8]

I wanted to share something here, a post which resonated with me all those years ago, written about 'true acceptance'. It was this post which connected to something within me, that would lead to my own freedom from anxiety. If you read with an open mind, If you are open to seeing something new, you may see something powerful in this. If you only read to confirm what you already believe, or read with an expectation to prove something wrong, you will be blind to what you are reading.



True Acceptance



The core of root dissolving treatment is "Acceptance", but what does Acceptance mean anyway, some people have asked me "I have accepted for years, why I haven't recovered at all", so today I will try to explain "what is the real acceptance".



In the case of treatment of Social Anxiety, some people thinks of "Acceptance" as a sort of method or therapy, they may say to themselves: "I accept myself, I accept my flaw, accept my blushing, accept my nervousness, then I can recover", actually most people can alleviate their symptoms by thinking so, because they have fought for so long, such a way of thinking can give them a sound rest. Then after some months, some of them found such way of thinking will not work when they felt timid, shy or embarrassed, they still blush before people, they still feel they are stupid in people's eyes or in public situation, so they feel that "acceptance" is the wrong way. What a shame, they never realise "Acceptance" is the only way out, the problem is that they have misunderstood it, they have in their minds, consciously or sub-consciously, they want to use this method to cure "Social Phobia", obviously it is a taken "Acceptance" as a sort of method, in self-contradiction, since you accept it, why you want to cure it?





Since you want to cure it, actually you still cannot accept it. Buddhism tells us: "all the troubles come out from desire" In the case of Social Phobia, I dare say, the very reason we get Social Phobia is that we have a desire to cure it or eradicate it, the very reason we have Social Phobia is that we cannot accept Social Phobia. So, how should we comprehend "Acceptance" in the case of Social Phobia? The answer is "surrender", yes, surrender, and surrender to your Social Phobia, saying to yourself, "OK, you win. I lose, I don't want to struggle with you again. Accept it, accept it not for curing it, accept it because you despair of curing it. Even if the Social Phobia will accompany you for the rest of your life, you don't care about it because you have no way to cure it, "no way" is the only way out. Next time when you are attacked by Social Phobia, say to yourself: "yes, it is me, I am a nervous person, I am a timid and shy person, why should I pretend to be brave and taikative; I am so nervous, why should I pretend to be easy: I am so anxious, why should I pretend to be calm." I am myself, not anyone wise, why should I pretend to be someone else, no one in this world can be anyone else, and we can only be ourselves. Some people may blame me for my radical view, it I had heard such perspective, l also would not have believed it, however it is just how I have recovered. Some people may think if they don't have a desire to cure Social Phobia, they will stay in this prison for ever, but I can assure you that such thing will never happen. Take myself as an example, when I truly accept myself, realizing that I can only be myself rather than anyone else in this world, I was suddenly free, I didn't try any means to consciously cure my Social Phobia, I didn't have a desire to eradicate those symptoms such as blushing or shyness. When I talked with people or see them in their eyes, I still felt shyness, I still want to hide away from them, but I had no mental conflict in my mind, I didn't think how to repel or cure such problem, because I thought I was just a such person, so I didn't force myself to do anything, if I wanted to hide away, I just hid away, if I felt I could persevere, I just persevered. Maybe I would still be laughed at, still be ridiculed for my bad performance, but in my mind, I was free, I didn't have a desire to solve my problem, although on the surface, I was still the same, but in my mind, I began to make the first step towards "acceptance". Even if I blushed to some extreme degree, I didn't care, I knew I was just such a person, even if sometimes I felt extremely embarrassed, I didn't care, because it was me, I was just such a person. When I got into this path towards Acceptance, then after some time, gradually, because I am not afraid of blushing, I blushed less and less, and finally, I seldom blushed naturally. Because I was not afraid of feeling embarrassed, I felt that way less and less, and finally I felt quite easy and I was able to control it.





For many years, what people are thinking to control it, we have gone the wrong direction. We have to start with "not controlling", then we can finally get control of it. Actually this simple phenomenon can be found everywhere. Sometimes when we are extremely afraid of writing or typing mistake, we tend to make more mistakes when typing or writing, when we are extremely afraid of slip tongue, we tend to say more wrong words, when we are extremely afraid of not sleeping well, we tend to suffer from insomnia. We are simply working with the natural flow of things, not against them. Applying this fundamental concept to anxiety in all its forms is no different.

[Bored]

exposure therapy?

[Amara 94]

Even with autism I think acceptance goes a long way. It doesn’t make more people like you but it makes you blame yourself less if someone shows dislike to you.

[Garlleg8]

Thank you for sharing what you’re seeing Nanuq, and your thoughtful response. I see your perspective, and i’d like to offer what I see and perhaps more clarification on this understanding. Again, i’m attempting to use words to point to an experience that is beyond the intellect, but hopefully people will sense what I am pointing to.

This understanding is not about acceptance at a surface level, or feelings of confidence even. It is not about even ‘liking’ who you are. It is about something far deeper and more fundamental, something that is before conscious effort or doing.

A person could have the experience of disliking their symptoms and their experience, and yet at the deepest level, can have accepted what is, and feel no resistance towards it in their heart.
A person could also have the experience of feeling confident and practicing positive thoughts towards themselves and their symptoms, but in their heart, they still reject themselves. Without true acceptance, whatever they do is always an expression of this insecurity at the most fundamental level, however ‘accepting’ it is on the surface.

Mixing up words, going blank, blushing, sweating, are all experiences that people without social anxiety experience too during an interview, and in many other parts of life. Is that something you have truly considered? I know for myself, I did not believe it to be true, and was not open to considering, that someone without an anxiety disorder, feels the exact same feelings that I do, too. And yet, it is absolutely true..these experiences don’t disappear without social anxiety, they are in fact absolutely normal and even mundane part of human life. The difference is, those without a disorder don’t see them as special, as something out of the ordinary that they need to remove. But those of us with anxiety disorders, our focus on and resistance to those experiences, only increases their intensity. The vicious circle begins, and the more intense the experience, the more we feel we need to remove it. But we have gone exactly the wrong direction. Only turning towards them, can we begin to experience the freedom we’re looking for, even while the symptoms are present.

True acceptance is about simply acknowledging what is already present, but is being resisted. It cannot exist at a heightened state, as with a disorder, if there is no resistance present to it. It would be experienced and flow through like any other experience, if it were simply allowed to be. It would come, and go, just as many other experiences come and go, throughout our day. In our efforts to control our experience, whether that is perceived outside threat or anything else, we create a problem that never existed, until we attempted to find a solution, for it.

Acceptance isn’t something you apply, or do, it is not a method, it is simply the natural consequence, with the recognition of what is true.

[Garlleg8]

Originally Posted by Bored

exposure therapy?

I can only share from my own personal experience and understanding of this.

I see exposure therapy as very powerful, but it does not deal with the root issue, and is ultimately only temporary, but itself. I see that in the moment one ‘practices’ true exposure therapy, it is like an act of surrender, one is giving up controlling their experience and doing something anyway. In these moments, a sort of deep acceptance takes place, and a sense of freedom. But, this only for the period of time that the exposure lasts. In my experience, soon after the exposure is over, the desire to resist experience eventually returns, and so does the suffering.

True acceptance addresses the root. It goes to the very heart of the experience, to the resistance and denial of aspects of oneself, perpetuating the entire cycle. Once this misunderstanding is recognised directly, resistance at the deepest level falls away, and in this case exposure therapy becomes simply redundant. There is no resistance present to ‘push through’ or ’ let go of’ anymore, once it has fallen away there is nothing but the simple flow of experience.

[Bored]

Hello, I would like to understand it in a more direct specific way, if you have finished writing it yet , thanks.

[Garlleg8]

Hi Bored, nice to hear from you

Here are some things I wrote, which I hope bring more clarity to what i'm sharing. If you could read and allow yourself to reflect on it..not to see how it fits in with what you already know and think (which will be of no benefit to you), or to 'understand' it intellectually, but to allow something new to come to you, that resonates with you at a deeper level. Let yourself sit with it, even for a day or two if necessary, and see what occurs to you..

You can share your thoughts and what you hear in what is written, and I will take it from there..


First let me mention, that although methods or practices such as exposure therapy can be very useful initially to gain momentum, if someone wants to experience true and lasting freedom from an anxiety disorder, methods or approaches can’t touch the root of the disorder.

I want to make a distinction first that I think is helpful. Our experience of a disorder is always made up of the content (symptom, undesirable thoughts, sensations, emotions etc..) accompanied by the deeply held desire to get rid of it. As when we go through this experience, all we consciously know of it is the content, we believe (understandably so!) that it is this content of our experience that is responsible for our suffering. And so we do what makes sense to us..we try to manipulate our experience in one way or another, however subtle that may be, There are countless different approaches and practices on how to manipulate the content of our experience, and it seems like this is the only solution to our very real problem. The one thing we miss, is that the entire experience, the very context in which the entire experience exists, is a deeply held assumption (something to fix), that to us simply appears as reality. We are living inside this assumption, believing that we are experiencing reality, when in reality we are experiencing our beliefs. We don’t need to fix a problem that we have created in our own minds, we only need to see that it is our own creation in the first place.

In this understanding, there are no methods or practices, because the more we see where our experience of it actually comes from, the less and less it is necessary to do anything about it, that as one sees or realises ‘insightfully’ the misunderstanding that is at the heart of the experience, the experience changes by itself as a by-product. As the misunderstanding falls away, so do all the attempts and practices we are already doing to fix and change ourselves. So instead of adding more ‘sophisticated’ or better practices to fix ourselves, it’s the process of allowing what is already there, to fall away. It is these practices, based on deeply held beliefs about the necessity to fix and control our inner experience, that is the momentum behind the entire experience, that causes the suffering. Without the resistance to ourselves that these subtle yet deeply ingrained practices provide, the symptoms would be fully experienced within us and in a short time would fade away or return to ‘average’ levels. We would experience the full range of emotions or symptoms but the suffering would dissolve, as there would be no resistance to ourselves causing it.

What do I mean by resistance exactly? Resistance is a product of your deeply embodied belief about your problem..not your intellectual ideas, but your deeply embodied understanding, what you believe in your heart to be true. It is your beliefs about the ‘problem’ at the most fundamental level, your very perception of it, based on what seems to be true at your current level of understanding.

So, the problem isn't that you have these strange symptoms, feelings, thoughts or sensations, it is that you have an expectation about them, not to be there. As a silly analogy, it would be like me deciding that people should not wear red t shirts, and after falling asleep to the fact I made up this rule, going outside and being infuriated when I see anybody with a red t shirt. Then trying to figure out how I could stop people from wearing red t shirts, and why people wear red t shirts when they shouldn’t. All my practices and approaches are born out of the fact that I believe people shouldn’t wear red t shirts and I need to do something about it. For as long as i’m asleep to the expectations and belief that i’m living in, then I will experience a conflict between what is, and my desire to rid it. My whole reality will be an expression of that belief and conflict..everything I perceive will be an expression of the misunderstanding that I hold in my heart, and will appear to be and feel to be absolutely true.
It is only by realising that i’m living in an expectation, in an assumption that was made up, that was never actually true..that I will fall out of my belief and wake up to the fact that there was never actually a problem.
And when we wake up from the nightmare we’ve been living in..nothing has changed yet everything is different.

As another analogy..If I couldn’t sleep one night and decided to go downstairs, but didn’t turn the lights on as not to wake my girlfriend, and on going downstairs I suddenly caught the silhouette of a man in my living room. All sorts of thoughts begin racing through my head, my body primed to fight, my heart racing, I charge into the dark and jump onto the figure. After a loud thud and a moment of struggling, I realise there’s no resistance..and no one else on the floor but me. Bemused, I switch on the light to find my suit jacket and a chair..I let out a sigh of relief and laugh, realising the ‘man’ was nothing other than a misunderstanding about what was going on. This analogy points to the fact that when’re lost in thought, when we truly believe something is real (there’s a man in the living room), then we can’t convince ourselves to ‘have better thinking’, or practice an approach to change our experience of what we actually believe to be true (that there is a man there). Experience changes only by seeing and realising for ourselves directly, what is actually true (there is no man). When we ‘realise’ that our experience was made up of a misunderstanding, then our experience shifts automatically, not through effort or practice. This process of realisation or insight is what causes a fundamental shift in our experience of anxiety, it is the process of something (misunderstanding about our experience) falling away, after which it simply makes no sense to do the things we were doing before..we naturally have less concern about everything we were concerned about, as we see that our concerns were based on misunderstanding.

What i’m suggesting, is that anxiety disorder is always the result of a misunderstanding, the experience of mistaking an aspect of our experience for a problem, for ourselves to be broken. We have the freedom to (completely innocently) create the experience of being broken..but it is only ever be an experience. We are all living in the middle of mental health, we just don’t know it. The more we see through the very beliefs that we’re already living inside of, the more we fall into and experience the mental well-being that is already there, waiting, before all the noise and misunderstanding that veils it.

[Bored]

Thanks for your reply and writing it all, take care.

[Garlleg8]

What did you hear in what was written Bored? did anything new/different occur to you?

[Bored]

Good question , it's all about our thinking, and to feel better we have to have more realistic thinking patterns? which can be hard to change if you have had anxiety for a long time, the anxious thoughts and feelings become hardwired , that's why a few sessions of CBT won't really help very much if you have had anxiety for a long time, also it can be hard to change if you don't have some kind of support system like an understanding family or friends, there not much help out there from the NHS, and not everybody can afford to go private

[Garlleg8]

Thanks for Bored for sharing. I would perhaps invite you to take another look at what i've shared. I've not described any methods, or that there is any thing you need to change, not even your thinking itself. That would just be another (just more sophisticated) attempt to fix ourselves. In trying to fix our anxious thinking we just have thinking about our thinking, noise on top of noise. We can't manipulate our thinking, and neither is that necessary.

Feeling better is the result of falling 'out' of our thinking, not having the right thoughts. Every single thought you've ever experienced was completely neutral, only your belief in there being good and bad ones, can create the experience otherwise. But this is only true for as long as you believe it is. Its always possible to fall out of seemingly hardwired and deeply ingrained thinking, and back into the mental well-being that you're sitting in the middle of, you just don't know it.

This isn't about practice, its about realising what you already have, where you already are, that you're already unbroken. Right now, in this very moment. If you look in the direction of your innate well-being (not to 'fix' yourself, but with curiosity to the unknown) then you begin to create a space for that realisation to come through. You allow a space for something new to come through.