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  #1171  
Old 11th March 2021, 23:16
AnxiousExtrovert AnxiousExtrovert is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleks;2504407.
I’m so dissatisfied with how my life is going, how my brain works, my personality, my poor communication, my job, my completely non-existent romantic life, my looks. If some of those things improved I’d probably not find the world quite as exhausting!

Thank you for your comment, I do appreciate it
Some of what you've put is quite enlightening though. Some of those things you can aim to improve or give yourself a better chance, I'm not talking about things illness related or you can't change.

But having some goals or purpose is actually half the way to better mental health or happiness. The idle hands is a devil's workshop does make sense in some contexts.

I'm going to try and take my own advice from tomorrow and start exercising more to stave of boredom.
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  #1172  
Old 15th March 2021, 14:56
Tembo Tembo is offline
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In my lunch break at work I’ve just had to come and sit in my car and cry. I haven’t cried for a good year or so. It’s pathetic. I just can’t see how I can change things. And I need to change things NOW. I don’t understand why I am finding everything so difficult, I’m so ****ing fed up with it.
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  #1173  
Old 15th March 2021, 23:34
biscuits biscuits is online now
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

^

It's okay to take yourself away for a little cry. Have you tried opening up a bit to people that you work with? Sometimes it can be really helpful to express that you're finding lockdown life a challenge because it's putting limitations on what you can do. It can be comforting to know other people are feeling similarly. Personally, it's been really hard because the things I do to escape and calm myself were all ripped away and it feels like I've gone backwards in everything that I'd gone forwards in. Also it gives us so much time (an unhealthy amount of time!) to stew on these things and to focus on all that is wrong. There's a really scary trapped feeling. But tell yourself that is temporary (even though this feels like forever, it's really not.).

Keep telling yourself that when this is all over you'll have more freedom and opportunity to do lots of different things. Perhaps you could plan some nice things that you'd like to do, to give yourself a few things to look forward to. You're such a sweet person with a kind nature. Read your post and imagine what you'd say if it was another poster, and try to give yourself the same level of patience, understanding and caring to help to take away that pressure.

Whoops sorry for long-un!
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  #1174  
Old 16th March 2021, 11:16
Mr. Nobody Mr. Nobody is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

folks might be interested in Roman Kemp's upcoming programme

he seems to be a pretty genuine guy, opening up about his struggles, and talking to people who have attempted suicide, or the friends they have left behind.
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  #1175  
Old 16th March 2021, 21:39
Tembo Tembo is offline
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Thank you biscuits, and please don't apologise for writing a long message - I appreciate your response!

I have touched upon it with work colleagues, but it's only small talk really which most people are also talking about. I'm not close with any of my work colleagues either, and it's so busy people don't really have much time to chat. Its more my personal issues which are affecting me, although lockdown is having a huge impact on it all. I Am lucky to have friends, and I have tried to open up to them a few times before but it is always brushed off like I'm being silly, or they quickly change the subject. Thank goodness for this forum, as there is no where else I can open up.

Sorry to hear it has been hard on you biscuits, and that your usual escaping and calming things are not currently possible. I hope you are able to start these things again soon!! I often go on a day trip in my local area, go to museums, or sit in a pub or cafe alone, or go away for a few day somewhere all of which isn't possible right now. It's certainly made me realise how important escape is!

Your final paragraph is very helpful, thank you. I will take it step by step, and at least we appear to be heading towards some normality in the next few months. It might not help some of my deep rooted personal issues, some of which have really worsened recently, but it will certainly help make me feel better. I hope once things get a bit more normal, you are not feeling like you've gone backwards so much biscuits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Nobody
folks might be interested in Roman Kemp's upcoming programme

he seems to be a pretty genuine guy, opening up about his struggles, and talking to people who have attempted suicide, or the friends they have left behind.
Thank you for posting this Mr Nobody. It is good more young people are speaking up about this. The suicide rates, especially for young males, are very concerning. There is still a huge amount of stigma about this, so good for Roman for talking publicly about this.
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  #1176  
Old 16th March 2021, 22:41
biscuits biscuits is online now
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

^ aw thank you . You are very sweet.

I'm very much looking forward to being able to do all of those things (in 2056??) - we have similar escapes!

Yeah, it's really hard when it feels like there's no one to talk to when you're feeling crushed by mental health struggles. I can relate to that and it can be scary.

Do you speak to anyone (professional) about the feelings you're experiencing? I truly believe that you can make it through this and maybe you need to reach out for a little support to help with this
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  #1177  
Old 16th March 2021, 23:13
Tembo Tembo is offline
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^ Fingers crossed you will be able to in a few months!

No I don't speak to anyone professional. A few years ago, I did start CBT therapy for anxiety, and then the year after the same thing for depression. It did really help me deal with my severe anxiety. I still have anxiety, but not as much. So, it may be time to revisit, and possibly explore the option of medication this time. Your words of encouragement have helped me think about this. I have some time off work coming up soon so then might be good to try and sort it out.
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  #1178  
Old 17th March 2021, 00:42
Orwell20 Orwell20 is offline
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Does anyone fantasise about something else doing the job for them? I have a recurrent fantasy of an asteroid hitting the earth while I’m asleep and wiping everything out, including me. No pain, no fear, no grieving mum and sister left behind...just pfff, nothing. The end of suffering.
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  #1179  
Old 17th March 2021, 01:21
No Longer Human No Longer Human is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

No, I ruminate sometimes on suicide pacts, though. Or even group or cult suicide. I think certain aspects of voluntary deliverence could be celebrated, in spite of the modern taboo in doing so, and the mutual encouragement of a suicide pact might be welcome.

It is just a passing rumination though. I've always been solitary and there's no reason to imagine that ever changing..

It is a common theme, also, on the loveshy forums I frequent for people to state that they are waiting for their parents to pass and.. that's it. For some lonely souls the only harm their suicide will cause is to their parents, and that is the final obstacle, one that will fall some day.
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  #1180  
Old 17th March 2021, 09:49
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

I appreciated the recommendation for the Roman Kemp programme which was really insightful, I am thankful to have seen it, and would recommend it to others.
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  #1181  
Old 24th March 2021, 14:05
Orwell20 Orwell20 is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Longer Human
No, I ruminate sometimes on suicide pacts, though. Or even group or cult suicide. I think certain aspects of voluntary deliverence could be celebrated, in spite of the modern taboo in doing so, and the mutual encouragement of a suicide pact might be welcome.

It is just a passing rumination though. I've always been solitary and there's no reason to imagine that ever changing..

It is a common theme, also, on the loveshy forums I frequent for people to state that they are waiting for their parents to pass and.. that's it. For some lonely souls the only harm their suicide will cause is to their parents, and that is the final obstacle, one that will fall some day.
The sad truth is that suicide isn’t always irrational or tragic. Sometimes it’s a sensible thing to do. People become really angry when you say that. It’s taboo, like saying “I’d never bring a child into the world - you’re better off never being born.” There’s a sort of unspoken agreement that we must pretend life’s generally great and worth living. But when I look back (I’m now 44) and think of my suicidal 14 year old self, I can honestly say that, had I ended my life, I wouldn’t have missed much. In the last 30 years, the pain, fear, sadness, etc, have massively outweighed the good. And if I could look into a crystal ball and see the horror life has in store over the next 30 years (a childless, poverty-stricken old age...cancer? deafness, blindness? dementia? etc) I don’t know what I’d do.

We have this strange delusion, probably imported from the USA, that there’s always hope. For many people there isn’t.
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  #1182  
Old 24th March 2021, 14:24
Nanuq Nanuq is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

^

I've been lucky I suppose in that my life has been much better than it might have seemed it would be at 14.

After a year of severe illness and pain and all the uncertainty of not knowing if what's wrong will ever be found, I'm at the point where I'm thinking about suicide a lot. Not just abstractly not being here, but thinking about how.

I love my children far too much to hurt them in that way, so I don't think I would act on it. I am just here not to hurt other people though. I'm spending a lot of time wishing I had died that first week I had covid, instead of fighting for my life. I thought all that mattered was not to die, but quality of life is important too.

I think we've forgotten how to die in modern society. When I was first ill and felt quite close to death, I wanted to talk about it. I wanted to know where my body would be (or rather my ashes) but my husband just got angry and said I was giving up. I wasn't, and I really didn't want to die then, but I wanted to talk about it because it's real.

We don't include death as part of living anymore. It must be nice to have a religion and all the little traditions that go with that.

I'm not Christian, but I went to a cremation a few months before I got ill and it affected me very much as I didn't relate to any of it, it seemed woefully inadequate for the end of a life. I would feel less depressed at life's demise if death was more integrated and comfortable as a notion. I think we should have a day of the dead in society. Or traditions that celebrate someone on the anniversary of their death, then I would feel happier at leaving my children if I did die.
Instead we're supposed to "fight for our lives" at all costs. My own life isn't really worth living anymore and it's such a burden.
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  #1183  
Old 24th March 2021, 14:24
Jen. Jen. is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orwell20
We have this strange delusion, probably imported from the USA, that there’s always hope. For many people there isn’t.
I don't think this has anything to do with being "imported" - the compulsion to live is universal. Humans would have died out long ago if they were reluctant to struggle on in the face of adversity. Other animals generally don't give up trying to live, do they? Hope is surely a biological instinct, not a cultural delusion.
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  #1184  
Old 24th March 2021, 15:08
Dougella Dougella is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orwell20
The sad truth is that suicide isn’t always irrational or tragic. Sometimes it’s a sensible thing to do. People become really angry when you say that. It’s taboo, like saying “I’d never bring a child into the world - you’re better off never being born.” There’s a sort of unspoken agreement that we must pretend life’s generally great and worth living. But when I look back (I’m now 44) and think of my suicidal 14 year old self, I can honestly say that, had I ended my life, I wouldn’t have missed much. In the last 30 years, the pain, fear, sadness, etc, have massively outweighed the good. And if I could look into a crystal ball and see the horror life has in store over the next 30 years (a childless, poverty-stricken old age...cancer? deafness, blindness? dementia? etc) I don’t know what I’d do.

We have this strange delusion, probably imported from the USA, that there’s always hope. For many people there isn’t.
I'm not contradicting you here, because your life experience is yours and I'm sorry it's been like that.

But for me I'm so glad I didn't act on the suicidal feelings I had for a long time when I was young. I feel so much better than I ever thought I could do then now, and I never would have experienced that. My family situation and relationships with them are ten times better now that everyone's grown up and don't live together. I know myself better and i'm gradually building some self esteem. I've also been lucky enough to find someone to be in a good relationship with and it's taken a lot of work but having a healthy,loving partnership with someone is something I'm glad I was still around to experience.

Other people have different goals and things they want or things they regret, but I dont want anyone reading this to think that nothing will change for them, because it can.
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  #1185  
Old 24th March 2021, 16:42
No Longer Human No Longer Human is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by O20
The sad truth is that suicide isn’t always irrational or tragic. Sometimes it’s a sensible thing to do. People become really angry when you say that. It’s taboo, like saying “I’d never bring a child into the world - you’re better off never being born.” There’s a sort of unspoken agreement that we must pretend life’s generally great and worth living. But when I look back (I’m now 44) and think of my suicidal 14 year old self, I can honestly say that, had I ended my life, I wouldn’t have missed much. In the last 30 years, the pain, fear, sadness, etc, have massively outweighed the good. And if I could look into a crystal ball and see the horror life has in store over the next 30 years (a childless, poverty-stricken old age...cancer? deafness, blindness? dementia? etc) I don’t know what I’d do.

We have this strange delusion, probably imported from the USA, that there’s always hope. For many people there isn’t.
I don't think it's fair to say that is was imported from the US though I understand what you mean.

Attitudes toward suicide are definitely shaped by culture - this is explored in books such as History of Suicide (Voluntary Death in Western Culture) which explores how attitudes have waxed and waned over time. We assume that suicide is "wrong" now but then, we would do. Because those are the mores we have absorbed from our age. That doesn't mean that our dominant attitude has existed for all time or is ahistorical. The early prohibition, for example, of suicide emerged to stop Christians leaping to their deaths in joy - the Cathar cults, for example, had a pro suicide stance - (suicide instead came to be seen as a crime worse than murder and so the leftover body would be ripped apart, buried at crossroads, denied a place in the afterlife, etc ) - this was because it became apparent that voluntary death made some sense in a christian worldview. Why wait around for heaven? The origins of our attitudes today probably lie in Christian ethics that were themselves a rejection of inherited Greek and Roman ideas around death. (Obviously that is a surface perspective, there are many other factors involved).

The sort of supercharged hope we see today though is, yes, vaguely "American" in nature.

"When the occasion for a praiseworthy death arises, it should be seized immediately ..let us not flee from death, the son of god did not scorn it" - That is the type of thing early Christians said.

The author charts the general decline of what is called the taedium vitae - the ancient belief in the fundamental weariness of life. We might now call this philosophical suicide, and it is complete anathema to the age. Suicide instead gets filed away under mental illness (by definition, if someone commits suicide they become a victim of mental illness, the categorization cannot be sidestepped). It is very difficult for our age to accept that suicide might be a positive choice, might be a noble way forward and might be a rational action, or might be an example of supersanity. That is literally the one last taboo of our age. Taking about it carelessly in the public eye might get you 14 years in prison.

I would argue that the reason for the taboo on suicide relates to what an old poet once wrote "every body found hanging from a tree insults every last remaining leaf". What the poet meant was that we generally find the idea of rational, philosophical suicide as unsettling because of what it says about the value of life itself, or the suspicion of its lack. If a life is clearly so disposable, what does that say about life? Taboos on suicide aren't about the other - they are about protecting our own, collective grasp on the world.

Another great book (though not without flaws) is Every Cradle is a Grave. It combines anti natalism with pro choice suicide ideas. The author makes the point, which I agree with, that athough we have no laws against suicide we still live in an anti suicide age - one that makes it ever more difficult for people to commit the act freely and calmly. So many people get ripped up under a train, for want of a peaceful method. She also suggests that suicide "prevention" - and even talking people down from the edge, as it were - is potentially an invasion of someone's liberty. To me that raises interesting questions - is prevention of suicide even a desirable thing? Why are people who intervene on bridges seen as "heroes" and not busybodies? Is invasive suicide prevention good for the individual (who then gets stuck with a life they may not want) or is it all about society's "PR"? The author of this book argues for a "land of free disposal" where individuals are given information, education and opportunity to make decisions over the end of their own life without shame or judgement. She goes as far as suggesting that schools should teach suicide as a reasonable option, which probably is where I would depart company from her arguments.
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  #1186  
Old 24th March 2021, 17:47
Tonkin Tonkin is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orwell20
Does anyone fantasise about something else doing the job for them? I have a recurrent fantasy of an asteroid hitting the earth while I’m asleep and wiping everything out, including me. No pain, no fear, no grieving mum and sister left behind...just pfff, nothing. The end of suffering.
Yeah! On the way to work, I used to wish that my bus would crash. It was a long time ago but I was pretty unhappy back then.

I sometimes have similar feelings now, although not for a few months, but dying of something a bit slower so I had time to prepare.

The problem with dying is that you would be dead so you wouldn't get to appreciate not being alive.

But I've got too many responsibilities to kick the bucket now, so I would rather stay alive. Sods law I get run over by a bus tomorrow
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  #1187  
Old 24th March 2021, 17:48
Consolida Consolida is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

Quote:
Originally Posted by indignant misanthrope
I hate life, it's so crap, it's just constant suffering.


It can certainly often feel that way and this past year has been especially hellish for so many of us with pre-existing mental health issues.


I'll refrain from the usual platitudes...but...I will say that if my numerous past attempts to end it all had been successful I would have missed out on some pretty amazing and life changing future events.
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  #1188  
Old 29th March 2021, 19:53
SAUKmods SAUKmods is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

A reminder that this thread provides a safe space for those who are suffering from suicidal thoughts to be able to talk openly about their feelings and experiences relating to those thoughts, and for other members to offer support.

In future, please use The controversial topics thread to more broadly discuss and/or philosophise the subject.
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  #1189  
Old 31st March 2021, 07:22
Nanuq Nanuq is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

Struggling with feeling suicidal. Had enough every day now.
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  #1190  
Old 31st March 2021, 10:12
Nanuq Nanuq is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply
I feel like this all the time lately, I'm repeating your words at the moment as a mantra "It's a feeling"..
That's very helpful. It is a feeling and while the underlying problems haven't changed in the last year which just keeps overwhelming me, my feelings do change.
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  #1191  
Old 31st March 2021, 11:26
Tembo Tembo is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

Hope you feel better soon Nanuq! Yes as Raks says, I’d recommend getting outside if you can. Of course, it doesn’t solve any problems, but I always find it calming and relaxing when getting outside, particularly on warm sunny days. Hopefully it’s nice weather too where you are!
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  #1192  
Old 31st March 2021, 11:39
Nanuq Nanuq is offline
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Default Re: The Suicide Thread - Trigger Warning

Thank you Tembo
It is nice where I am. I think conversely that has had a negative effect on me because previously I would probably have spent the day outdoors being quite active and now I can't. These things make me feel quite despairing but you're right, I can sit in it even if I can't walk or cycle like I used to.

I expect I need some mental health support to deal with physical health problems as I used to manage mental health with physical activity and now I have the double whammy of not being able to do that, with the extra mental burden of being ill and not very capable/able on top.

It's all changing mindset to cope though, isn't it?
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  #1193  
Old 31st March 2021, 23:35
Tembo Tembo is offline
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Hopefully even just sitting outside, watching and listening to nature may still help. Fresh air and a bit of vitamin D.

Sorry that you can't walk or cycle like you used to, it must be frustrating!
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  #1194  
Old 9th April 2021, 07:54
Nanuq Nanuq is offline
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so sorry you're feeling like this, Consolida

I completely understand, I came to this thread with the same feelings this morning, I can't take this post covid tremor in my sleep night after night. The ongoing pain and the fear of not understanding what's happened to my body is constantly overwhelming.

We're massively let down by the medical profession. I expect if you were male your experience of doctors would be very different and you wouldn't be put off going

sorry I'm not much help, but sending love x
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  #1195  
Old 10th April 2021, 03:57
Consolida Consolida is offline
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^ Thank you Nanuq

You take care too xx
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  #1196  
Old 18th April 2021, 16:12
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I'm really struggling at the moment. I just don't know how I can change things.
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  #1197  
Old 18th April 2021, 17:28
Nanuq Nanuq is offline
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sorry to hear you're struggling so much
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  #1198  
Old 18th April 2021, 19:17
Tembo Tembo is offline
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Sorry to hear that Pink Lady! I hope things are less of a struggle for you soon!!
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  #1199  
Old 19th April 2021, 15:21
Pink*Lady Pink*Lady is offline
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Thanks Nanuq and Tembo.
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  #1200  
Old 19th April 2021, 17:04
Consolida Consolida is offline
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^ I hope you are feeling a little better today Pink*Lady
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