Married or in a relationship? You don't have SA

[diplodocus]

Originally Posted by black_mamba

But they do. That's the point.

He's behind you!!

No he's not!

Yes he is!

[Ajax Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by Cynic

He was a bouncer and gangland heavy, so it is to be expected.

Fair comment. But that is only within a certain section of society, and not reflective of how the majority think.

Originally Posted by Cynic

What do you define as a pariah then?

A social outcast. A person rejected from society.

Now I know you've had horrendous experiences in life, and you feel a lot of rejection, but I don't believe you are bad enough a person for society as a whole to reject you. I know we aren't drinking buddies or anything, but I really like you. Think you are a decent guy, and certainly don't reject you. I have a lot of time for you. I know others hold affection for you too. Despite your bad experiences, I don't see you as an outcast, although I understand that you may see yourself as such.

Originally Posted by Cynic

Maybe. I don't identify with any class either. However, a middle-class bird will always seek a professional middle-class bloke. She certainly isn't going to want anyone on a lower income, and why should she when she can get a middle-class bloke. The only women who aren't fussed about income tend to be dolite chavs, and they all go for the neanderthals in the gangs anyway.

Much of what you said there has truth in it to an extent. I'd not pretend otherwise. That is speaking generally, though, and with the amount of people we have in the world, there will always be significant numbers of exceptions to the rule. I'd disagree that the only women not fussed about income are dolite chavs, though. Plenty of females are more interested in who you are as a person. I'd not bullshit and say there aren't females motivated by money, though, because there are. Anyway, there are plenty of really decent females who also happen to be on the dole.

Maybe I'm lucky. My partner has seen the world. Lived in Europe, Australia and America, dated cash-rich guys and gangsters. But in the end she says she's more happy with little old, SA, skint Benfica than she's ever been in the past. I suppose in the end you realise what is important and what is bollocks.

Originally Posted by Cynic

Am I right in thinking you grew up in Liverpool? If so, which part?

My early years were spent living on the Litherland/Bootle border. In later years it was a council estate nearer to Netherton. I don't want to be too specific on an open forum. I did have a flat in Waterloo for a short time, and that's as 'up-market' as I've got. Council estate culture can be really weird. There are always plenty of lovely people on them, but there is also a backward element, dolite/criminal culture alongside them. I grew up being abused by gangs of scallies because of the way I dressed, looked, spoke etc.. Took a few hidings in my time too. Some estates are like the twilight zone, as I'm sure you are well aware. I spend some time in Norris Green too. I have a friend and family there. Now that place is a law unto itself.

Originally Posted by Cynic

Well in. I don't see myself being able to do that now though.

Cheers bud. Maybe at some point you'll feel able to do so. I hope so, because I think you are a pretty cool guy. A guy who I'd love to see doing well and enjoying life a little.

Take care, mate.

[Little Red Rooster]

Wow 11 pages of posts on this...

I can't be bothered reading through them all, but for what it's worth, the notion that if you are married, in a relationship or have a job, then you don't have SA, is complete rubbish.

I have been in a relationship for 16 months and I hold down reasonably well paid job, but I am also receiving CBT for social anxiety.

Like most conditions, there are varying levels of severity with SA. Also, although there are a lot of common themes with SA sufferes, there can also be variety in the ways in which it affects peoples lives.

Realising that SA sufferers can have relationships and hold down jobs should hopefully help you adjust your irrational thinking and give you a bit of optimism.

[Ajax Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by Little Red Rooster

Wow 11 pages of posts on this...

I can't be bothered reading through them all, but for what it's worth, the notion that if you are married, in a relationship or have a job, then you don't have SA, is complete rubbish.


Realising that SA sufferers can have relationships and hold down jobs should hopefully help you adjust your irrational thinking and give you a bit of optimism.

Eleven pages, and it's been quite interesting too. But really, you nailed it with just those few lines above.

[drrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr]

Originally Posted by Jane Mann;

I have been married for 7 years and have SA. My mother who is now 80 has been married 58 years and had 7 children. She also had Social Anxiety. Having social anxiety doesn't mean you don't have other positive traits such as maybe a good sense of humour, creativity, intelligence etc. Social anxiety is not be-all and end-all. Sometimes you will find that opposites attract which is the case in my married. My husband is an extrovert, loves an audience, works in management, never stops talking. He also knows my problem and likes me for being quiet!!

Unfortunately it's usually the loud women that have the least to say

[Ajax Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by Cynic

That describes me.


Thanks, but I see little evidence to suggest that I'm anything other than a social outcast. My life experience has been so different to "normals" that I feel too different to see myself as anything else now.

I won't even begin to try to contradict how you see yourself and your life. All I'll say is personally, I don't see you in that way.

Originally Posted by Cynic

Females can afford to be out of work long term as they can seek a man to support them.

I'd agree that that is a lot more socially acceptable, even in today's supposedly more equal times. It's still seen as ok for a woman to be dependent on a man, but not for a man to be dependent on a woman. Don't you just hate double standards?

Originally Posted by Cynic

Around Linacre - I know that area roughly. Despite having been through it a trillion times I still don't really know it that well though.


One known for being dodgy? I've known a few folk from there. I briefly did voluntary work at a day centre for adults with learning disabilities as part of a college course over 10 years near there.

Yes, just off Linacre. It's been demolished now though.

The council estate is not the worst around, but not great either. I despised growing up there. In the 80's it was horrible. At one point I used to go out with a massive bread knife in my waistband just in case. I had friends from good areas such as Crosby who'd refuse to visit me at home through fear of attack because they didn't dress scally.

Originally Posted by Cynic

Waterloo seems an ok place, apart from some of the pubs in and around South Rd. There's a couple of nice Chinese and Indian places there. There's also a nice wee coffee shop where I went in with a fellow SAUK poster a couple of months back.

Waterloo is ok, but attracts plenty of idiots to some of the pubs and parks. South Road can be a bit rowdy, but I did like living there. I've had many an Indian meal down there.

Originally Posted by Cynic

Yeah, most council estates are pretty wild places full of violent neanderthals, with a few sound people scattered among the vermin. I've only been through Noggsy in the daytime, and been to Croxteth Park twice, which is nice, though have been warned that the estates around there are combat zones. I got told that there was a tower block estate in Crocky that used to be dubbed 'Smack Heights' back in the 80's, so I guess the problems in that part of the world aren't anything new.

Yep, there is another estate half a mile from me and that is pretty bad. Funny enough, just over the road from there is private housing costing a lot, and some have swimming pools.

Crocky and Noggsy do have estates you'd not want to be ambling around without local knowledge. I dropped my girlfriend off at a relatives house in Noggsy recently. It was the first time I'd been on that estate and the locals immediately had me down as an outsider and I was watched all the way off the estate. Good job I was driving, not walking. A friend's daughter was battered by a gang of lads around Sparrow Hall Estate simply for being from an estate on the other side of main road.

I think I remember the tower blocks you mentioned. They've been demolished now.

Originally Posted by Cynic

Cheers Benfica. When I first re-joined this 2 years ago, I could see you were one of the better posters then, and I'm glad you came back. Do you ever see yourself going to an SAUK meet?

Thanks, mate. Funny enough, I had no plans on coming back to post. I popped in to see if anyone on the site had posted on Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) then made a couple of posts on the subject. Since then, I put a few other things on the back burner, so had more time to post. So as soon as I get busy again I'll toddle off once again.

I've never really considered going to meets. Not sure why, really. Just never felt the need or desire to. That's all to do with me, rather than any reflection on others who may be there.

[softlyspoken2]

The only thing that I would say on this thread is that maybe women have it slightly easier because it is more socially acceptable for a woman to be quiet, shy etc.

Speaking personally - when I met my partner I was trying very hard to put on a show of being alright - that was a thin veneer and I guess it lasted long enough to hook him. He is aware of my problems and is himself pretty shy and quiet so it is something we have in common although he doesn't have SA really - in that he isn't held back by his shyness and he has grown out of it to a degree over the years.

[Ajax Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by Cynic

I too, used to carry a blade when I was 14-15. I think you missed the pun in my quote as it gave a hint.

Must have missed that. *Goes back to check*

Originally Posted by Cynic

What estate is that? Is that around the Bootle/Crosby area too?


I've heard there has always been a big rivalry between Sparrow Hall and Dodge in Netherton.

It's more the north end of Litherland.

I wasn't aware of the Dodge/Sparrowhall thing. Those estates are quite far apart.

Originally Posted by Cynic

Only to return in another year or 2 with a new name.


Fair enough. 'tis your choice. It would be good to see you at one should the fance ever take you.

Probably. I get very bored with my usernames, so like changing them. I always post the same way though, so most long time members would know who I am. I don't advertise it though. I just like drifting in and out again.

If I ever did do a meet, I'd enjoy meeting you too. And I'd buy you a nice cold pint.

[Kipling]

I always thought having a relationship would cure my SA - it certainly helped as it got me out of the house a lot more and gave me something new to focus on but 6 years later (and in the same relationship) I still have the same worries and fears, it's just I have someone else to talk to them about these days - even if they don't always understand.

[warmness]

I met my boyfriend 2 years before I had SA, so I completley trust him, he's like my barrier from the world if you like. He's also the only social interaction I get. Because i've been with him a long time I feel totally comfortable around him, he understands that I dont go out much so he doesnt pressure me to.
Just because your in a relationship doesnt mean you're going to be on guard 24/7

[AutumnLeaves]

I've only so far been able to go out with people who are also a bit SA. I've never approached a 'normal'. When I'm with someone, I still sometimes find myself getting a bit shy or tongue-twisted and I often find it easier to touch/hug than to speak. After a while though, it's hard to get me to shut up. It's a lot easier to speak to someone you're in such close contact with on a regular basis and therefore feel comfortable with, than being out in the world, making conversations with strangers, going to interviews, talking to people in authority, passing people on the street etc. Actually, ok I lie, before my relationships, I dated a guy briefly who met me when I was in one of my rare chatty-in-public moods, but he dumped me when he realised I had so little confidence, and he thought that I was deliberately trying to disguise my womanhood. Think I've improved in various ways since then, but I've still definitely got SA!

[pinkwafer]

I sometimes can't get my head around there are people who have never been near anyone... I mean, I think if *I* have, surely anyone can have a relationship.

[Mr Ploppy]

2 things.

I'm amazed I didn't post a reply to the OP.

And just looking through this thread it's strange to see all the members who don't post anymore.

[Connor]

Couldn't be bothered reading through all the posts, just declaring bulls**t on the original post. That is all.

[vjplum]

Married or in a relationship? You don't have SA- I can certainly see why someone would think this. Dating and relationships are certainly one of my fears which I need to work on overcoming. I read that those with SA are more likely to be single but doesn't mean every person with SA is or was. One of the things I've come to realise about shyness and SA is that different people with it will have varying degrees and severity of it and at any given time as well and for some SA only affects them in one particular area, for example one person with SA/shyness might be most affected with everyday interaction with people but feel more OK with performance and another person more affected vice versa. I'm thinking it might be helpful for me to look at the back log of threads and posts on dating and relationships and gosh there's plenty of them, to try and help myself with this area of my life.

[WeiJingsheng]

^ Yeah, SA is very general and on a continuum of severity. No two people are likely to have the exact same problems, to the same degree.

I don't really have confidence or self-esteem issues (only mild, I would say) but I find it almost impossible to be myself around anyone. So yeah, a relationship seems unlikely for me ATM, but I wouldn't say that defined SA at all.

[Toxic]

whats with all the thread necro's?

i remember this from ages ago!

suppose it depends how you end up in these situations

could i randomly go up to a woman in the street/club/whatever start chatting, get number..organise some dates and hopefully let it progress into a relationship? hell ****ing no..not in a million years

could i be around women, be it by employment..friends of friends/courses or something that i could do...end up being friends with them...and progressively getting closer to the point one of us might try and take it to the next step and thus..relationship! ...yes..maybe, thats quite possible!

despite having very very limited and crap experience in this department and suspect im probably going to die alone ..no i dont believe this thread is true at all

[Johnni]

Originally Posted by Connor

Couldn't be bothered reading through all the posts, just declaring bulls**t on the original post. That is all.

Sums it all up really. Surprised this thread didn't go into meltdown.

[Ajax Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by Johnni

Sums it all up really. Surprised this thread didn't go into meltdown.

I think it lasted really well. Threads on this and similar topics often do go into mentdown, don't they?

Back when I first started posing on here I remember someone taking issue with me really having SA because I had a girlfriend and have had a number of relationships in the past. I got told that I must have either a fat wallet or a big penis. I wish!!

Quite insulting at the time, but also quite laughable really. I can't even beging to fully explain how horrible and debilitating SA has been in my life, but relationships are just something I'm ok at. I don't know how, but I just am. Not that they are easy or anything, but I can muddle through. In pretty much every other aspect of my life I've been an unmitigated disaster, though.

In the eyes of a few, you cannot have a partner, a job, go to college or University, drive a car, etc.. if you have SA. But a few hours on this site dispells all of those myths.

It's strange reading back over this thread and seeing all the people who used to be regulars but aren't here now.

[Vastaux]

Originally Posted by TommyGun

Yea I'm with you on that.

This.


I mean seriously, i know this was op'd along time ago, but i had a girlfriend for 4 1/2 years... how did i meet her? my friend gave a girl on a bus my e-mail as i was too scared, she found it hillarious and gave her friend (my ex) the e-mail and we ended talked on msn for about 3 months before i finally had the courage to meet her.

On meeting her i subsequently ran away on the first attempt and bitched out, she gave me another go and i met her, barely talked and we met regulary to go for walks, which i didnt talk very much and was very quiet and it took another 2 months to me to become comfortable enough to ask her out...

As such she was my comfort blanket for 4 1/2 years and was the only person i needed, have never had friends, nothing and she was ok with that...

Now just because i had a girlfriend doesnt mean i dont have any form of sa, but like with everyone if they took the time to get to know me for me, then i can become relatively "normal" with them.

I'm single now, do i have any idea how i will find my next girlfriend? no clue on this earth! She was and still is the only female i have ever felt comfortable talking to on a personal level... because we took the time for me to be comfortable around her, not many people are willing to do that.

[WeiJingsheng]

Fairly sure Jim Carrey in 'Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind' had social anxiety.
Just need to find your Clementine, OP.

[mhealer3]

Originally Posted by brighteyes

my ex I met in the unit, was a mistake and ended up more of a dependant relationship,
but my new husband I met on the internet and it was the hardest thing I'd ever had to do.
I told him of my problems and he was patient... when we first met he did all the talking I couldn't speak and he even sat on a different sofa and stayed at my mums ( he was from scotland)

so, although I am married I do suffer SA

i love that story
best wishes to you friend

[blue_the_puppy]

Originally Posted by Connor

Couldn't be bothered reading through all the posts, just declaring bulls**t on the original post. That is all.

uh, yeah.

[Johnni]

Originally Posted by Benfica

I think it lasted really well. Threads on this and similar topics often do go into mentdown, don't they?

I expected it to cos basically by suggesting you don't have SA is basically one of the worst insults you can make on here. I took issue when someone said it about a few others on the SAUK FB group and it really hit a button with me cos they wouldn't listen to reason that SA affects us differently. I think that's proven as there is quite alot of different posters on this thread as something like this will affect everyone on here as it addresses each one personally.
I reckon for some they take some sort of weird pleasure/pride in that there issues are worse than everyone elses.

[Ajax Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by Johnni

I expected it to cos basically by suggesting you don't have SA is basically one of the worst insults you can make on here. I took issue when someone said it about a few others on the SAUK FB group and it really hit a button with me cos they wouldn't listen to reason that SA affects us differently. I reckon for some they take some sort of weird pleasure/pride in that there issues are worse than everyone elses.

Yep, that kind of accusation is low, unfounded and quite ignorant really. It serves to completely invalidate the horribly painful life experiences of other sufferers, and also the efforts they make to overcome their problems. To be honest, I think anyone spouting that line simply does not have any real understanding of Social Anxiety Disorder in the wider context. Rather only seeing it in the much narrower context of purely their own personal experience and viewpoint. So it's like saying ''if I can't do that with SA, no one can do that if they have SA. If they can, they aren't SA.'' And if there is one thing that has me rolling my eyes on here more than anything else, it's the ''my SA must be much worse than your's'' inference or blatant statement. It's so not cool. Mind you, to the credit of the overwhelming majority on here, that kind of thing is not said that often these days. In fact, I don't recall it being said by anyone here for a while now.

I doubt that most who do think it actually mean it to sound harsh towards others. I suppose it is quite natural to say things how you see them. When seeing things through a very narrow perspective you can only call it as you see it, but how you see it is not necessarily how it actually is. I really can understand how some people might believe that SA people cannot do a long list of things, but reality shows that many certainly can do. I think one of the most fantastic things about this site is that it proves time and time again just what SA sufferers are capable of. It shows that despite everything, there is a way forward. It shows what can be achieved if we stick in there and do our best when we can. It highlights the guts, determination, resilience and strengths of people. And when I say that, I don't just mean those who are blazing a trail in their quest to beat their problems. I also mean those who are, at this point in time, managing to keep their heads just above water. Managing to simply get through another anxiety-ridden day. Sticking in there when they currently see no way forward. All of that takes guts, determination, strength and resilience. I remember feeling weak because I could barely crawl out of bed and get through a day, but no, that took strength. Just because we feel weak does not mean we aren't exhibiting strength. And also, today's 'trail blazers' are generally sufferers who at many points in time were without hope themselves, and barely getting through a day at a time.

Suppose all I'm saying is that SA people don't just progress because they aren't SA anymore. So many progress despite SA, because they are a lot stronger and resourceful than they think they are. And that, I think, can be an inspiration to us all.

[GoldFish]

There are a few reasons i am not even in a relationship and i have narrowed it down to this:

- I don't feel physically very manly. I am nerdy looking as a guy but i do try to exercise.
- I am not outwardly self confident and have low self esteem
- I always believe that a female that i may be interested in is getting better offers and would have certain standards of seeking height, looks, personality types etc.
- I am struggling in my career. I make a basic full time wage which doesnt make me much of a hot shot in terms of providing financial security.

[elfie]

i can understand why people would think because im marred i dong have SA. i had SA to the extream as a teenager definatly 16 17 time when alot of things were changing for me, i couldnt ask for thihngs in shops or talk in a group id feel faint and as if all the blood ran to my feet and other things, then i met my husband at 17 with him beside me i got alot better although ther was so me bad times like a job i had at 19 but as we were together and life was good i was ok i realy didnt mind what people thought about me as i have mark to love me. unfortunatly mark has become ill and im his cearer now and its my resposibility to lookafter everyting make shure everyone is safe and happy and deal with all the ofishaldom needed plus having very littel mony for everyting a family needs thus my sa has comback hard when mark was well i had his suport in theys things now though .........................

other people have difrent storyes anyone can have SA or even develop it thought situations

tc elfie

[luluab]

hi i am married and i am in recovery from SA but also my husband has it

I can do things he cant and he can do things i cant so we support each other

married for 35 years

we are all different which makes us all unique

[Progress]

Originally Posted by Benfica

but relationships are just something I'm ok at. I don't know how, but I just am.

Can you say anything about how you make them work. Because a big thing that always knocks my confidence is when a girl finds out how little socialising I do then I assume she's going to be put off.

[Mr. Nobody]

Originally Posted by GoldFish

There are a few reasons i am not even in a relationship and i have narrowed it down to this:

- I don't feel physically very manly. I am nerdy looking as a guy but i do try to exercise.
- I am not outwardly self confident and have low self esteem
- I always believe that a female that i may be interested in is getting better offers and would have certain standards of seeking height, looks, personality types etc.
- I am struggling in my career. I make a basic full time wage which doesnt make me much of a hot shot in terms of providing financial security.

pretty much all of what you say,..I could have said for myself,.

but, when I was bringing these bullet points up with my Counsellor, he replied to all that with,. " are you sure those aren't just reasons for avoiding a relationship?"

it got me thinking,.. it's hard to face, I know, but on considering it, I could see he was right, I'd been lining up a barrage of reasons for not being in a relationship, but behind all the reasons was really an unwillingness to try, and a plausible excuse to avoid that situation entirely,
the reasons were really a defence mechanism to avoid accepting that challenge, because who knows,.. it might not have gone as well as I'd hoped, and I could have looked stupid trying and it could have all been an embarressing mess, so, in order to avoid all that I had been lining up reasons to basically avoid ever giving it a go.